Decree: Grant Promotion and Advisors

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

The modifiders for ritual magic and true magic and such are over-complicating things.

I'd like to see that the modifers were simpler, or that we simply list the base classes and their cost, and limit modifiers to those that have ingame value. - fx. a blooded caster able to do realm magic might warrant a higher cost.

But to add to the DC for a ranger type, who will never cast a realmspell in his life but is no more or less valuable than a fighter, just means there are hardly any ranger assistants.

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

hunh?

Neils, any character who can cast 'True Magic' warrants a higher DDC in my opinion.

A normal Ranger or Paladin or Cleric or Bard or Sorcerer/Wizard, without the neccessarily skills for realm magic is worth considerably less at the domain level, though not at the non-domain level necessarily.

[DM B]

To keep it simple you could reduce the number of steps - so a regent hires a low/med/high level Pc but doesn't know exactly what they will get

L1-3: DDC +5.  L4-6: DDC +15.  L7-9: DDC +25/30, diplomacy necessary, etc.

I was thinking along those lines; it also fits well with the skills and such being based on low/med/high level.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

hunh?

Neils, any character who can cast 'True Magic' warrants a higher DDC in my opinion.

A normal Ranger or Paladin or Cleric or Bard or Sorcerer/Wizard, without the neccessarily skills for realm magic is worth considerably less at the domain level, though not at the non-domain level necessarily.

Yes, I completely agree, I do not mean cheaper, I mean simpler, the current system is just too complicated. You can only do True magic if you are Blooded, so the Wizard and the Sorcerer are Always blooded, yes?

In addition, to do Realm Magic, you always have to be able to do Ritual Magic, so instead of 2 +5 DDC modifiers, why not just have 1 +10 DDC modifier?

So you could make a list of the classes, and next to each bundle you put the DDC for that class bundle.

The only additional variables would be Realm Magic yes/no for a further +10 DDC, and level span.

On the topic of level spans, I'd like to see the skill spans implemented somewhat too, or atleast the relevant ones.

A Sage is not important, just flavor, but the skills Administration, Warcraft and Command are the ones that a hireling should be displaying on his C.V.

Fx. to get someone who is Expert in One of these skills, it might be the default setting. To get one that is Expert in two of these skills might be +5 DDC.

To get a Master in one of these skills might be a +5 to DDC. Noone may Master more than 1 skill pr. default.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

So here is a suggestion for the new way of presenting it. The actual rules are malleable, but kept as they currently are where I was able:

Hire Help [Court]
You attract skilled persons to the regent’s court, to act as advisers or hirelings.
Type: Court – You can take a number of court actions each turn equal to your Court Expenditure (minimum 1).
Cost: 1GB.
Difficulty: The DDC is 10 + the modifiers explained below.
If using this action to attract more than one character, the DDC is 10 + the group’s ECL. This rule is applicable only to groups of characters (an adventuring party, a group of bodyguards); for more important individuals, one action must be taken per character hired.

Modifiers: Court, Stability; Special - see below.
The base DDC varies based on the class of the character you are hiring:
Aristocrat, Expert or Warrior are DDC 10
Adept, Barbarian, Bard, Blademaster, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Guilder, Knight, Magician, Monk, Mystic, Noble, Nomad, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue Scout, Skald, are DDC 15
Wizard and Sorcerer are DDC 20

In addition, you may apply the following modifiers, for further abilities as specified:
If the character is a spellcaster and is able to, or will be able to, cast Realm Magic, add +10 to the DDC.
-   If you pick this choice, then you must also buy a bloodline for the character. Wizards and Sorcerers already have the cost of a tainted bloodline included in their DDC.

If the character is a Master in one of the skills Administration, Warcraft or Command, add +5 to the DDC.
If the character is an Expert in two of the skills Administration, Warcraft or Command, add +5 to the DDC.
-   By default, it is assumed a character is Expert in no more than one of those three skills.

For starting level, select the applicable modifier for the characters level:
Level 1-3, add a +3 to DDC.
Level 4-6, add a +6 to DDC.
Level 7-9, add a +9 to DDC.
You cannot hire a character above level 9 without GM input.

Blooded individuals are rare (beyond what their ECL would indicate). Add 5 to the DDC for each level of bloodline strength possessed by the Scion (tainted, weak, minor, or major; characters with great and true bloodlines are not generally available using this action).

 Add 5 or more to DDC if trying to hire a character of a race/culture not normally found in your court.

The DM may allow you to subtract 5 (or more) from the DDC when you are hiring for only a defined period of time (or a specific task), such as for one year or a single turn.
Subtract 5 from the DDC if you are hiring an adviser (as opposed to a hireling).
Add 5 to the DDC for each additional use of this action during the same turn.
Influence: Yes – You can use influence on hire help actions.
Restrictions: You may take 10, but you may not take 20 on hire help actions.
Check: The target character joins your court for an indefinite period of time as an adviser or hireling.
See the rules for able assistance in Chapter 2: Domains for additional details of what you can use such characters for.
Special: Characters of low (1st to 3rd), medium (4th to 6th) level and high (7th to 9th) level, are assumed to be paid for by your court expenditure.
Very high (10th-12th) level and legendary (13th to 15th) level characters often demand additional (1GB) payment each turn to remain with you.
Near-epic (16th-20th) and epic (21st+) level characters are so rare as to be handled on a case-by-case basis by the DM.
Powerful spellcaster might require 1 or more extra GBs in extra payment. They are handled on case-by-case basis by the DM.
Also keep in mind that you maximum number of advisers/hireling is limited by your court expenditure (the DM may allow adventurers to be hired for defined periods of time, in excess of court expenditure).
Note: The player is more than welcome to help make up any characters he hires (in the RoE PBeM players are required to come up with character descriptions and basic statistics; otherwise the action automatically fails), but the DM has the final say.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Hmm, I'm torn.

You could say that any L'x' character is equally useful - so a mage might be able to cast realm spells, but a warrior can lead an army.  Or you could say that realm spells are 'something special' so make them cost more / harder to find.  Since realm spells should however have similar cost:benefit ratio's to normal domain actions, the need for the extra cost is at first glance uncertain.

However, since any spellcaster able to cast realm spells has to be able to cast at least L3 spells, (+8 on 4 skills, 3 feats - L5 minimum probably more...) they can actually cast 3 realm spells a round, so possibly it is right to add the DC since they have more 'actions' to support the regent with.

In practice however, for wizards such people are so rare, as to make hiring via an action impossible - half of all wizards outside of elven lands are already source regents per canon, they are not hireling type people.

Priests similarly are not easy to get hold of - any priest able to cast realm spells is, or should, be a very senior person in their church - someone seen as touched by the gods.  They have a calling - I can see a temple domain able to 'recruit internally' i.e. train them up, but that's about all - and would recommend a long delay on their 'arriving' to reflect the learning process, so again the DC mod sounds wrong - it should be RP/DM bribery.


As to repeat hires.  Why is it harder to hire a second person in the same round, surely the advertising for the first will make subsequent hire's easier?

For example, the Knights of Haelyn want to hire some more bricks, Sir Guy holds a Grand Tourney, advertises for 2-3 seasons in advance (1 GB and 5 RP per turn) spends, say, 30 RP + 5 GB for the event itself, and makes an attempt to hire a kick-ass god of war on a DC mod of -25 for the spend.  His second action that season is to try and hire a captain for an archery company, his third to hire a master pikeman. Surely those latter two hires should actually be easier for the first hire, not harder? Frankly once you have spread the word like that you will get 2-3 great people you need to appeal to for any given post, 20-30 pretty good people you would settle for that want to work for you, and 200-300 losers, nutters, and charity cases.

And think of the S&C - anyone who is anyone, and everyone who wants to be someone will be there, regents should be fighting off people trying to get noticed and win a post...

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

To keep it simple you could reduce the number of steps - so a regent hires a low/med/high level Pc but doesn't know exactly what they will get

L1-3: DDC +5.  L4-6: DDC +15.  L7-9: DDC +25/30, diplomacy necessary, etc.

I was thinking along those lines; it also fits well with the skills and such being based on low/med/high level.

I would dearly like to hire an heir for my regent; my regent is an old man and his predecesor got murdered so I like to be prepared.

Hence I would like to see the hirehelp action fixed as soon as possible - preferably before turning in my DO for turn #63

I want it so much that I would not at all mind waiting getting my turn #62 and get the rules fixed. Since finding an heir is, I assume, a long term project it suffers a lot from getting further delayed by rules update (mind you I support updating rules)

Pretty please 

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Finding an heir should be the main pre-occupation of any ruler, and if not them, then their court.  An heir indicates stability, continuity, and, fo course, favouritism and opposition...

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

I think this makes total sense for a landed domain, but I tend to think of non-landed domains a little differently.

Priests do not rule through 'divine authority' per se, but rather through consensus.  It makes sense that the clergy would gather to appoint their heir, though hopefully the previous regent worked hard to ensure a particular choice, but it is by no means 'unilateral' per se, unlike a typically landed-domain.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

I think this makes total sense for a landed domain, but I tend to think of non-landed domains a little differently.

Priests do not rule through 'divine authority' per se, but rather through consensus.  It makes sense that the clergy would gather to appoint their heir, though hopefully the previous regent worked hard to ensure a particular choice, but it is by no means 'unilateral' per se, unlike a typically landed-domain.

Hmm, smoke signals from the Vatican?  Temples are intensely political - I wouldn't expect any one to be 'nominated' as such - but the list of potentials could be very short, and the favourite can probably rig things to their advantage (see the last Pope's introduction, sermon, closing advice, etc).


Personally I think that my main gripe at present, is that it is a '1 action' event - I'd rather spend several court actions over a few seasons to reflect training and selection (and of course, bring down the vast cost!) as this is not an off-the-cuff sort of thing - indeed hiring any classed person of reasonable level should be drawn out.

Perhaps a 2 stage process, 1) court actions to find/train suitable candidates, 2) hire action to get them accepted by the order.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Getting accepted has to happen before the "coronation" - If not taken care of, the mechanic of ROE is dropping Prosperity, Stability and/or Regency.

Lets not make up more actions... 

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

Having a ruled a temple domain, it was never like you said.
a. Regent Realizes they need an Heir
b. Regent recruits a short-list of people .
c. Training -- I send them on adventures, Training Actions, have them use Adventures to Support Actions (another way they gain experience), etc.
d. Regent dies.

If Heir--
2. Heir Takes over
If no Heir--
2. Domain Gathers to determine -- it can be a lengthy process -- but it depends on circumstances.  The OA was without a regent for a while, as was the Holy Order.  The OIT is very strange in how they do it (and it can be lengthy, I think Briesen took a while for everything to fall correctly).

3. Diplomacy -- Diplomacy -- Diplomacy -- Diplomacy: Only a fool assumes that everything is fine after the transition, it is prudent to use a few diplomacy actions to introduce the regent and/or layout the framework for your rule. Furthermore, when the transition happens, your stability begins to shift negatively.

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

Getting accepted has to happen before the "coronation" - If not taken care of, the mechanic of ROE is dropping Prosperity, Stability and/or Regency.

Lets not make up more actions... 

It can happen afterward, actually.

Such was technically the case realistically with the Maire of the ETN, she was a compromise candidate, and as such probably needed to spend time ensuring her domain's loyalty for a time.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Getting accepted has to happen before the "coronation" - If not taken care of, the mechanic of ROE is dropping Prosperity, Stability and/or Regency.

Lets not make up more actions... 

It can happen afterward, actually.

Such was technically the case realistically with the Maire of the ETN, she was a compromise candidate, and as such probably needed to spend time ensuring her domain's loyalty for a time.

Yup, I think we agree, what I meant was, that if you do Not do it before hand, then you will suffer losses afterwards, as you describe.

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

Nope. You WILL suffer loss while your domain is 'uncontrolled' OR 'Regent-less'. You also can suffer MORE losses if your regent is accepted by the domain fully.