Decree: Grant Promotion and Advisors

[DM B]

Changing regent is always a troubled time for the domain; the question is HOW troubled. The more prepared, the less trouble. For one example, check the stability section in the RG.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Getting accepted has to happen before the "coronation" - If not taken care of, the mechanic of ROE is dropping Prosperity, Stability and/or Regency.

Lets not make up more actions... 

I was casual in the term, sorry.  Basically I agree with the diplomacy point, I see it as:

Stage 1.  Get the person noticed by the wider domain - some act of heroism, etc.
Stage 2.  Show off their strength, piety, etc to cement their reputation in the domain.
Stage 3.  Show off their leadership skills to get the wider domain seeing them as a potential leader - this probably involves giving them some sort of senior rank (master of the 7th spell, general, head of the inquisition, etc).
Stage 4. Make a major effort to get them recognised as heir.
Stage 5.  They then have to actually take over...

But on a wider point on hiring, the 'click, I have a tank' approach is unhelpful, I'd rather have 3 or 4 actions with moderate DC than one with an insanely high DC, this would a) allow the cost to be 'touchable' and b) infer that the NPC is slowly being courted / introduced to the realm and so slowly winning over doubters in the domain.

The latter method might take a year or so (depending on how many similar court actions a season you can take) and would need you to track the actions (Fred the Just, promoted hireling - ally - henchman - lieutenant - heir?) but shouldn't be a problem to deal with.

Of course, you wind up with different classes of 'employee' under this method:

Hireling:  Casual employee from time to time, has their own projects, may also work for other domains.  Can aid actions, but is not fully accepted/trusted so does so at a penalty.
Ally:  Firmly allied to domain, may have some of their own projects, but seen as one of the domain.  Often called on to aid in domain actions.
Henchman: Well known in the domain as linked to the regent, some minor personal authority.
Lieutenant: Senor member of the domain in their own right. May carry out domain actions in their own right.
Heir:  Seen as the heir / one of the potential heirs if the regent dies.

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

Lets not introduce a new status of AA. "Ally"

As it is now, perceived by me that is ;-)

Advisor: Casual employee from time to time, has their own projects, may also work for other domains.  Can aid actions, but is not fully accepted/trusted so does so at a penalty.
Hireling: Firmly allied to domain, may have some of their own projects, but seen as one of the domain.  Often called on to aid in domain actions
Henchman: Well known in the domain as linked to the regent, some minor personal authority.
Lieutenant: Senor member of the domain in their own right. May carry out domain actions in their own right.
Heir:  Seen as the heir / one of the potential heirs if the regent dies.

Heh I've used Andy's descriptions and swapped the Hirelings for the "Ally" of Andy. Inserted Advisor where Andy has Hireling and voila - everything is back to normal 

I think that the process of an heir to take over should vary great from domain type to domain type; Should also vary between domains of same type:

In short while I appreciate the suggested procedures for an heir to take over I think it should only serve as a guideline and be something the individual player work out possible coordinated with DM's

The first born son to a Sovereign is something entirely else than choosing between some of the bishops for a temple. Also thers a great difference, in my oppinion, from a planned change of leadership wher the old regent pamper the chosen heir and to something unexpectedly that happen when a regent gets himself killed being a hero on adventure.

And yes I notice the adventures of Bjørn are highly lethal. I dont say I wanna change that but I liked the way Bjørn gave a warning before the Vampire adventure started; a last chance to ditch, call reinforcements or just being extra precautious, perhaps to a degree where adventure fails or only gets to be a very minor success.

[Wandering off topic to OOC Vampires adventure thread but it is related since LPA as a result of that adventure will very soon discover how the heir stuff work out]

It was really nice to watch; DM and players alike I thank you for the entertainment.

Gray you have my sympathy - I feel sorry for you loosing your regent even if he was not perhaps the best of friends with my regent; Even though this is OOC Wallac will too be rather unhappy for the leader of LPA to have died. If you guys give an opportunity for IC  reactions it would be great.

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

Getting accepted has to happen before the "coronation" - If not taken care of, the mechanic of ROE is dropping Prosperity, Stability and/or Regency.

Lets not make up more actions... 

I was casual in the term, sorry.  Basically I agree with the diplomacy point, I see it as:

Stage 1.  Get the person noticed by the wider domain - some act of heroism, etc.
Stage 2.  Show off their strength, piety, etc to cement their reputation in the domain.
Stage 3.  Show off their leadership skills to get the wider domain seeing them as a potential leader - this probably involves giving them some sort of senior rank (master of the 7th spell, general, head of the inquisition, etc).
Stage 4. Make a major effort to get them recognised as heir.
Stage 5.  They then have to actually take over...

But on a wider point on hiring, the 'click, I have a tank' approach is unhelpful, I'd rather have 3 or 4 actions with moderate DC than one with an insanely high DC, this would a) allow the cost to be 'touchable' and b) infer that the NPC is slowly being courted / introduced to the realm and so slowly winning over doubters in the domain.

The latter method might take a year or so (depending on how many similar court actions a season you can take) and would need you to track the actions (Fred the Just, promoted hireling - ally - henchman - lieutenant - heir?) but shouldn't be a problem to deal with.

Of course, you wind up with different classes of 'employee' under this method:

Hireling:  Casual employee from time to time, has their own projects, may also work for other domains.  Can aid actions, but is not fully accepted/trusted so does so at a penalty.
Ally:  Firmly allied to domain, may have some of their own projects, but seen as one of the domain.  Often called on to aid in domain actions.
Henchman: Well known in the domain as linked to the regent, some minor personal authority.
Lieutenant: Senor member of the domain in their own right. May carry out domain actions in their own right.
Heir:  Seen as the heir / one of the potential heirs if the regent dies.

There have been numerous examples where you don't have a crazy DC for the hire action, because other steps have been taken to reduce the difficulty of the action. 

There is no hard-n-fast rule, instead I suggest you think on what actions you can use to get your 'ideal' AA.

Able Assistance is like the MOST UNIMPORTANT thing about a domain. It really doesn't warrant all this attention, I think.

[DM B]

Amen to Gray's last comment; the AA section is as detailed as it is because the rules are also intended to be used with a tabletop game...but as always players find it so much easier to relate to characters than an abstract domain concept. And they have way too high expectations of what their characters can do.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Able Assistance is like the MOST UNIMPORTANT thing about a domain. It really doesn't warrant all this attention, I think.

I'd actually get rid of able assistance and simulate the court's help in other ways, it's overly complicated in my view.

But 'adventure' and 'domain' PCs and potential heirs currently are either 'in' or 'out' - the jump is too big, there are comments about using other actions to bring them in, but nothing definitive making it impossible to plan an action sequence to get them.  So I could potentially spend a few diplomacy actions, and if that got me +10 or so to the eventual hire action that might be worth it, but if they only add +5 then probably not...

If you have different grades of such people, showing how integrated they are, then each step is smaller, and can be built into a plan - tag them as a hireling this turn, make an adviser of them the next, etc.  You might spend a year game time bringing them in, but you can always see the path as it were - and no particular step in the progression costs the earth.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Amen to Gray's last comment; the AA section is as detailed as it is because the rules are also intended to be used with a tabletop game...but as always players find it so much easier to relate to characters than an abstract domain concept. And they have way too high expectations of what their characters can do.

Thats true, but its also very hard to figure out what the ECL of an adventure is. In short, all we get to know is that something is stinking up our realm, and that, if unstopped, we will all fail, die horribly or lose stability.

In that situation, you round up the gang and get cracking. If the gang you have available is not enough, well, there is no way to know before you are well into the thick of it.

I dunno what the fix for this should be though, unless you as DM scale the adventures to the participants... Which would mean much less danger. - OR make really big signs, like the Manethander thing, that you probably can't do this.

[X-DM Jon]

Able Assistance is like the MOST UNIMPORTANT thing about a domain. It really doesn't warrant all this attention, I think.

I'd actually get rid of able assistance and simulate the court's help in other ways, it's overly complicated in my view.

But 'adventure' and 'domain' PCs and potential heirs currently are either 'in' or 'out' - the jump is too big, there are comments about using other actions to bring them in, but nothing definitive making it impossible to plan an action sequence to get them.  So I could potentially spend a few diplomacy actions, and if that got me +10 or so to the eventual hire action that might be worth it, but if they only add +5 then probably not...

If you have different grades of such people, showing how integrated they are, then each step is smaller, and can be built into a plan - tag them as a hireling this turn, make an adviser of them the next, etc.  You might spend a year game time bringing them in, but you can always see the path as it were - and no particular step in the progression costs the earth.

 I agree that they complicate things, but in a good way. I like the personal feel the characters of a realm give me. Something I will not be able to get from a Court stat or something simplified.
 In RoE I, a stability drop in my domain was personalized through the actions of the high inquisitor, it made the problem come alive in ways a mere number could not have.

 So I'm all for the complications of having "living" able assistants, without them RoE would take one step too close to Europa Universalis and become more of a tabletop online game, than an actual strategic roleplaying game.

 That said, I believe aa's shouldn't be treated as the centrepiece of the game. If you need them, then hire them and promote them as you go along. Maybe you meet some of them along the way and decide to hire them. But apart from that they're just another interesting aspect of your domain. In a very real sense they're the rules aspect that's able to save you money, increase your chances of succes and keep your regent alive.

 AA's are great! No matter what level, class or bloodline they have. It's all about WHO they are.

[X-DM Jon]

Amen to Gray's last comment; the AA section is as detailed as it is because the rules are also intended to be used with a tabletop game...but as always players find it so much easier to relate to characters than an abstract domain concept. And they have way too high expectations of what their characters can do.

Thats true, but its also very hard to figure out what the ECL of an adventure is. In short, all we get to know is that something is stinking up our realm, and that, if unstopped, we will all fail, die horribly or lose stability.

In that situation, you round up the gang and get cracking. If the gang you have available is not enough, well, there is no way to know before you are well into the thick of it.

I dunno what the fix for this should be though, unless you as DM scale the adventures to the participants... Which would mean much less danger. - OR make really big signs, like the Manethander thing, that you probably can't do this.

 Maybe players should consider doing more supportive actions? Like more espionage, more advisor, more research first? If you don't know what you're up against, you're walking blind. Take a turn or two for preparations next.

[X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)]

Personally, I like the characters and the AA. Yes, this is a domain game and more often than not you are incapable of asserting your absolutist desires on a "suspecting" populace that isn't all that peachy about what you think it best.

However, you are not the domain, you are the guy/gal sitting on a throne (or wherever) trying to steer your domain and exactly because you're no omniscient skynet, you have to rely on your AA. If there's a dispute between loggers and miners in a remote town, or a small band of goblins is troubling a village or the flood has ruined the food stores of a minor community, you have to send someone to deal with it, and it can't always be you because you have to deal with bigger issues.

Sure, a hero king will personally charge the big monster (its good for PR) but if that hero king has to lead the army to support his liege lord or ally, he has to send someone else. And that someone else also has to manage the domain while the hero is away.

AA represent those characters the regent most often interacts with. A foreign dignitary arrives, I'll ask my lt. (who is a diplomat) for advice or even send her to deal with it. Smaller brigandage/monster event, I've a general who can take care of the problem, someone stealing my money, I've a spymaster and so on. And each of them has a group or more of their own AAs or employees that they in turn consult or delegate tasks to.

However, since we play this specific regent, having his "circle" of confidants is what makes the game more believable.

I'm reading an excellent book about the Fall of the Roman Empire now (by Peter Heather) and there's an event described that takes place in 372AD (or somewhere around that time) in which the citizens of Leptis Magna complained to the emperor about a certain general. The emperor's seat at the time was in Tries (Germany), over 2000km away. When both parties sent their representatives to Trier, the emperor had no choice but to send one of his AA to Leptis Magna to investigate and report back to him. His priority was the Rhine and the hordes of barbarians on the other side and he could not spare half a year it would have taken him to get there in person, and he was a "hero king" of sorts as he came from the army. It so happened that this AA embezzled some money, made a deal with the general and blamed it all on the innocent people of Leptis Magna, but that's outside of the scope of this topic. The point is that Emperor Valentinian trusted this man and used him for important tasks. As Heather states "Valentinian effectively ruled over Trier and its surroundings. The rest of his vast empire was under his control for as much as he could be informed about what was happening and properly react via his confident agents."

i.e. AAs

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Amen to Gray's last comment; the AA section is as detailed as it is because the rules are also intended to be used with a tabletop game...but as always players find it so much easier to relate to characters than an abstract domain concept. And they have way too high expectations of what their characters can do.

Thats true, but its also very hard to figure out what the ECL of an adventure is. In short, all we get to know is that something is stinking up our realm, and that, if unstopped, we will all fail, die horribly or lose stability.

In that situation, you round up the gang and get cracking. If the gang you have available is not enough, well, there is no way to know before you are well into the thick of it.

I dunno what the fix for this should be though, unless you as DM scale the adventures to the participants... Which would mean much less danger. - OR make really big signs, like the Manethander thing, that you probably can't do this.

 Maybe players should consider doing more supportive actions? Like more espionage, more advisor, more research first? If you don't know what you're up against, you're walking blind. Take a turn or two for preparations next.

Exactly.

[X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)]

There have been numerous examples where you don't have a crazy DC for the hire action, because other steps have been taken to reduce the difficulty of the action. 

There is no hard-n-fast rule, instead I suggest you think on what actions you can use to get your 'ideal' AA.

Able Assistance is like the MOST UNIMPORTANT thing about a domain. It really doesn't warrant all this attention, I think.

That sounds good to hear. I was actually thinking of the possbility of using spells (realm scrying, royal facade) combined with advisor actions and possible espionage to lower DC for hire help.

Are any other wizard spells exept for Find the Divine Blood any good for locating possible AA?

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

AA's are great! No matter what level, class or bloodline they have. It's all about WHO they are.

That's my thought actually.  Each court level gives you a named AA in some position - the exact details frankly don't matter.  You then get 1 action per AA (i.e. your court actions), or an AA can add 2 to any other action (max half your court helping on any one action) instead of taking their own action.  The +2 reduces action cost which has an equivalent effect to reducing domain costs if the bonus is set correctly.

No need to hire, consider their class, etc - just a personality in a role.  If you want something special they might be good at one type of action or suchlike (high inquisitor, can add +2 to DDC of anyone contesting your holding instead of taking an action), these could be standard for a given position, or a matter of bribing Bjorn.

That way the hire action is restricted to people with a class-impact on your realm, the 'court' as such is always a background thing mechanically.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

AA's are great! No matter what level, class or bloodline they have. It's all about WHO they are.

That's my thought actually.  Each court level gives you a named AA in some position - the exact details frankly don't matter.  You then get 1 action per AA (i.e. your court actions), or an AA can add 2 to any other action (max half your court helping on any one action) instead of taking their own action.  The +2 reduces action cost which has an equivalent effect to reducing domain costs if the bonus is set correctly.

No need to hire, consider their class, etc - just a personality in a role.  If you want something special they might be good at one type of action or suchlike (high inquisitor, can add +2 to DDC of anyone contesting your holding instead of taking an action), these could be standard for a given position, or a matter of bribing Bjorn.

That way the hire action is restricted to people with a class-impact on your realm, the 'court' as such is always a background thing mechanically.

Thats a pretty good idea. Me like.

(By the way, you can only have 1 +2 competence bonus pr. action, so no stacking advisor bonuses.)

[X-DM Jon]

Your interesting suggestion has the one problem that it removes the adventure part of RoE, which we will not be without. You'll still need adventurers to have classes, levels and a possible bloodline score to emulate this. Or change the game itself substantially.

 But it could be interesting to separate the two. Remove the admin aa's, expand on the court rules as you suggest and have aa's be solely concentrated on high fantasy matters, like adventuring with the regent, becoming lieutenants, leading armies, jockeying for position within the domain and becoming the new regent.