Author Topic: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen  (Read 56024 times)

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Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2009, 12:22:09 AM »
Well, technically this is a brawl not a duel - most of the normal code duello is being ignored - everything from delay, apology, grant of offense, seconds, etc - the swordmage has been very sporting both as a player and character.

The green knight is very lucky that the swordmage didn't demand that the weapons be spells (the first insult clearly being from the baron she gets to choose under most of the codes, and the others generally let the ranking person pick which is again her) - and the baron very lucky she allowed the switch at all...

From my perspective Robhan is fairly impartial - the Sword Mage is a wizard he doesn't know well, the Green Knight a warrior whose honour he doesn't want to injure.  Tornilen with a new ruler might be more amenable to godliness and it isn't as if the mad baron will get to run it anyway...

Of course that wouldn't stop the Pontiff simply declaring the duel over, he;s already ignoring the clergy/noble divide already, and I'm not sure if he technically out-ranks a baron to demand the duel is paused while they gut the baron... assuming that the Sword Mage would let anyone interfere.

Isn't this assuming that there are several actual laws and codes lain down? As I recall duelling 101 on a simple basis, the one who challenges doesn't get to pick weapons and such.
Besides, as Jon states, she isn't a "real" duchess, so it actually is beneath the Baron's status and thus she is the one insulting *him*, speaking up against a higher ranked noble (giving him ample reason to call upon "his" champion).

Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2009, 12:40:22 AM »
Hehe, in addition to being the resident masochist (the best is yet to comeTM LOL) I used to be the resident medievalist in many PBEMs until I realized that trying to force people into accepting whatever view of the middle ages I thought was "right" wasn't the proper way of doing it.

So, while I understand your logic, we cannot really enforce any one single "rules of engagement" that the DM hasn't sanctioned.

Besides, what works for a lawful paladin of Haelyn might be "too procedural" for the not so lawful paladin of Cuiraecen.
Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen

Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2009, 01:19:30 AM »
Thorsten's got the gist of it, as do Robert.

 However, Andy it hitting very very close to an important point of this whole mess. I shan't point out what.

Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2009, 01:52:25 AM »
Hehe, the great "stoneman" of Osoerde speaks :) I guess the emotionless William fails to understand that the Stormlord is not for principles and procedure as much as for blind emotion and impulsiveness ;)

P.S. Good RP Harv!
Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen

Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2009, 02:02:41 AM »
Hehe, the great "stoneman" of Osoerde speaks :) I guess the emotionless William fails to understand that the Stormlord is not for principles and procedure as much as for blind emotion and impulsiveness ;)

P.S. Good RP Harv!

Thanks, Robert!

I personally am all for this.  As far as I can tell, this is total insanity.  When all is said and done, to kill (or attempt) Estvan because it was two against one, is beyond shameful IC in RoE.   

Nonetheless, I think I just offered Arvour a challenge he cannot neccessarily refuse, particular given how 'passionate' he is.
Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...

Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #50 on: March 12, 2009, 02:11:43 AM »
I guess I should note to everyone:

Osoer killed the Prince-Consort of Aerewe, Caemed Roesone, half-brother of Arvour Roesone.
Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...

Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2009, 02:18:29 AM »
Well, Arvour can't really hear you since he's running towards the combatants right now and, don't worry, he certainly won't attempt to "double team" Estevan. He's offering to take SM's place instead of her brother which is what Estevan wanted, but he didn't show, unfortunately.

Oh, and as for Caemed/Marlae, they've been relegated to cousins according to the new canon. Arvour is now the grandson to Daen Roesone, not great-grandson, making him first cousin to Marlae/Caemed's father Teried.

But this doesn't change the fact that you've got justice comin' yer way, ye diyty muydeyin wat ;D
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 02:46:00 AM by Roesone/ARR (Robert) »
Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen

Offline X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2009, 08:32:58 AM »
I think the world you were looking for Robert was....

"Varmit!"
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2009, 08:51:04 AM »

Isn't this assuming that there are several actual laws and codes lain down? As I recall duelling 101 on a simple basis, the one who challenges doesn't get to pick weapons and such.
Besides, as Jon states, she isn't a "real" duchess, so it actually is beneath the Baron's status and thus she is the one insulting *him*, speaking up against a higher ranked noble (giving him ample reason to call upon "his" champion).

Oh now that opens a can of worms - who has the 'right to the title' - a common cause of duels.  If you can ignore a 'title' just because you feel that it is yours and not theirs then the entire system falls down - the incumbent may be 'proven' not to hold right to the title in duel, but untilthey lose the duel they hold it - and no sane system will suggest differently.

The insult by the way is not her claiming title, or usurping his rank - that happened far too long ago - again duelling codes will vary, but most demand that the insult is recent.  Not difficult to circumvent if you want a duel - you just blow off about it and then the insult is new again - but the question of 'who first through the insult' at the S&C if judged is very likely to be the Baron...  as for which set of rules let you pick time/place, weapons etc that will vary, but usually it will be 'the victim' simply because that protects against the killer-picking-fights scenario.

As for substitution, substitutes were quite rare - particularly if the party was healthy.  Can a duke have their leg-breakers beat up a commoner?  yes - but that isn't a duel its the law.  Can two nobles insult each other and then one hide behind a professional killer?  Not a chance in hell, the whole point is that they are the ones offended, and that as nobles there honour is their life.

And then you comes to scions - bloodtheft is heresy, outlawed - think of why.  Why would the churches outlaw scions hunting each other down and going highlander?  Answer it would lead to the extermination of the upper class as a gorgon-style killer simply walked around picking dues, claiming the others bloodline and go on to kill again.

The GN may want to draw drago into a duel, but he should damn well have the guts to go into the cathederal and challenge him directly - picking a fight with the man's sister frankly shames him. He may want to kill a mage for fun, fine, but he has to personally challenge her to do so.

And certainly if the GN simply kills the SM after disarming her, instead of offering her the chance to apologise, is waay out of line - the SM should of course call for pause and apologise (bit your tongue woman! you lost, that's the rules!) - but any chivalrous opponent will remind a defeated duellist of the option rather than gloating over their victory and going for the kill....

As for 'why have any rules' the present fiasco is the obvious reason - seconds arrange everything so that all agree that it is 'fair' or 'legal' - and so that loopy lovers and honour-bound fools don't charge in if their man is losing.
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Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2009, 10:13:41 AM »
Let me put this as simply as I can.

 The Swordmage isn't a Duchess, by virtue that noone has acknowledged her claim to that title. It's just sort of slipped through the cracks of general Anuirean chaos. Just like Baron Roesone originally did (obviously his title is generally accepted now).
 So socially speaking, there are many who do not see her as such and do not believe she is protected by any peer superiority granted her by title. Tshalen is seen by many as being the arm of the law in this matter. Dealing one way or another with a problem her neighbours never have.
 "Many" would in this case seem to be very Anuire City centric, but the sentiment is widespread all over Anuire.

 As for all the rest? Well Tshalen is an old man, so he's well in his rights to be represented by a champion - especially since he's the challenged party. The Swordmage could have changed the composition of the duel's contents if she wanted to, but let's face it - she's a bloody Vos! They haven't read the code duello, they just kill people they don't like!

 As for all the rest, you've hit the nail on the head. Apart from the bit about "the man's sister". The Swordmage helped defeat the Eyeless One, perhaps the most horrible entity in all Anuire after the Gorgon. She's a worthy opponent by any standard.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 10:36:51 AM by DM Jon »

Offline X-SASI/Orthien Tane (Rune)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2009, 10:22:50 AM »
Well, Arvour can't really hear you since he's running towards the combatants right now and, don't worry, he certainly won't attempt to "double team" Estevan. He's offering to take SM's place instead of her brother which is what Estevan wanted, but he didn't show, unfortunately.

Oh, and as for Caemed/Marlae, they've been relegated to cousins according to the new canon. Arvour is now the grandson to Daen Roesone, not great-grandson, making him first cousin to Marlae/Caemed's father Teried.

But this doesn't change the fact that you've got justice comin' yer way, ye diyty muydeyin wat ;D


Pfff... that's cheating! He was supposed to be a bastard, you bastard!
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Offline X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2009, 10:23:47 AM »
It is complicated, and by accepting what she has so far the SwordMage has given up a number of "niceities" that otherwise might be considered to be the norm or in play.

But as has been said, she is a Vos after all...
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Offline DM B

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2009, 10:30:43 AM »
This is good, Baron Roesone has now triggered the Knight's divine wrath...that's what happends when a bastard tries his hand at anything; the gods have cursed them you know, so nothing good can come from their actions  ::)
DM Bjørn

Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2009, 11:32:23 AM »
Pfff... that's cheating! He was supposed to be a bastard, you bastard!

Umm... I haven't changed anything, I got it handed down to me. Oh and don't worry, Arvour's still a bastard, as you may well see from Bjorn's post and from what happened to him lol
Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen

Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: MIRROR - Dawn at the Cathedral of Cuiraécen
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2009, 11:43:40 AM »
Ummm... where was I hit exactly, arm or leg, or was it rib? First it says under my armpit, then deep in the knee and then that my arm is hanging uselessly at the side.

Then again, it could have been all three in one stroke, judging by Green Knight's speed.
Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen