CHARACTER RULES

[X-Points East]

OoC:

Edit:  Feel free to delete this post.

[Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde)]

well, when you keep deleting and modifying the old posts you make it impossible for me and others to make comments and work on modifying your proposals in a way that make sense to anyone reading the thread.

So to avoid wasting my time again I will refrain from commenting the new proposals until such time when, God forbid, the DMs say they contemplate using your proposal in whole or in parts.

[Yggdrasil (DM Andy)]

well, when you keep deleting and modifying the old posts you make it impossible for me and others to make comments and work on modifying your proposals in a way that make sense to anyone reading the thread.

So to avoid wasting my time again I will refrain from commenting the new proposals until such time when, God forbid, the DMs say they contemplate using your proposal in whole or in parts.

Isadora had you up late I take it    I'll let you off as she's awfully cute in the pictures 

While I confess I've not read as much of the proposed rules as I should have done, I think its good that he's doing something, and by posting as he goes, he offers others the chance to shape stuff as it develops, whereas waiting to do an Aphrodite would deny them that chance.

[Ruideside/OM (RP)]

I think the complaint is that he edits the original posts rather than posting an edited version, so one cannot follow the discussion properly as what was commented on no longer exists.

[Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde)]

well, when you keep deleting and modifying the old posts you make it impossible for me and others to make comments and work on modifying your proposals in a way that make sense to anyone reading the thread.

So to avoid wasting my time again I will refrain from commenting the new proposals until such time when, God forbid, the DMs say they contemplate using your proposal in whole or in parts.

Isadora had you up late I take it    I'll let you off as she's awfully cute in the pictures 

While I confess I've not read as much of the proposed rules as I should have done, I think its good that he's doing something, and by posting as he goes, he offers others the chance to shape stuff as it develops, whereas waiting to do an Aphrodite would deny them that chance.

Yeah. I don't mind him posting as he goes. And I think it is good that he shares his ideas  I am just annoyed that he delete his old proposals so those comments that are left seem out of place.

The God forbid comment referes to all the issues that I have with his current proposal.  But as mentioned I feel like I am wasting my time commenting them as he'll just delete and post new making it seem like I am ranting about something that doesn't exist.

[Yggdrasil (DM Andy)]

Yeah. I don't mind him posting as he goes. And I think it is good that he shares his ideas  I am just annoyed that he delete his old proposals so those comments that are left seem out of place.

The God forbid comment referes to all the issues that I have with his current proposal.  But as mentioned I feel like I am wasting my time commenting them as he'll just delete and post new making it seem like I am ranting about something that doesn't exist.

Ok, I get it.  I've done enough on wiki's and forums to know how hard it can get to track a conversation over pages (which is why I think he edits the original), but understand your point also, re-posting the edited page as a reply would get unwieldy very quickly - I suspect that there is no "right" answer just "less wrong" ones.  I'm not sure what would work best, possibly a "current position " and a "comments" parallel thread - you'd still get the "what the heck is X talking about" but it would be in a separate thread which could be headed by a suitable introduction mail.

[Ruideside/OM (RP)]

I don't think it's really that big a deal. It annoys Linde so he's not going to reply to the thread until the proposal is finalized is all.

[X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)]

Ok, I get it.  I've done enough on wiki's and forums to know how hard it can get to track a conversation over pages (which is why I think he edits the original), but understand your point also, re-posting the edited page as a reply would get unwieldy very quickly - I suspect that there is no "right" answer just "less wrong" ones.  I'm not sure what would work best, possibly a "current position " and a "comments" parallel thread - you'd still get the "what the heck is X talking about" but it would be in a separate thread which could be headed by a suitable introduction mail.

I think it would be as simple as quoting the changed section and adding quick bullet point comments indicating what was changed. Or a list of edits made at the bottom of the (original) post.

I know that coming into this thread when it was already on page 4 meant that 3/4 of the posts had me scratching my head going "What is he talking about? That is what the original post already said."

[X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)]

A few thoughts...

I like how it all ties neatly together: The same bonus used for bonuses to actions/EDCL, EDCL ending at 20, etc.

There are effectively only 7 character levels, this means "level" will increase less often than is typical in D&D. Gaining levels and small perks is fun! Might be an advantage to make it more granular, maybe not. I realize that EXP = level, more or less, but still you need to gain quite a few levels to move up.

I assume that two legendary characters aiding an action does not equal +24 to that action. An idea might be that highest bonus counts, +1 if there is an equal level character helping (if the bonus was already above 0) and no further advantage to assistants on the same action. Or something similar.

Not completely clear on what happens if an assistant is helping a regent action - providing able assistance - that is. What action is used for this? The Ply Trade action?

Having a separate proficiency for Contest Law Holding and Rule Law Holding might be a bit over the top, imo. One proficiency for each Holding type might be enough. Already a lot of ground to cover here.

I like how ECL and EDCL makes priest, druid and mage domains less dependent on their regent. There is still a big imbalance here - in a realm domain (law, manor and provinces) it hardly matters what level your regent is. It still matters a lot for caster domains... Providing some kind of perk for having a legendary fighter ruling you realm might be cool.

How does this tie into adventures? Exp level and character class is used?

That is a lot of different classes. A lot of them are just variations on the same, almost identical, theme.

One way to solve the different Regency Collection rates might be to say that a starting character collects full province regency + two full other types (or 1 full, 2 ½; 4 ½). Then adds ½ a holding type at X level and ½ a holding type at legendary. So a legendary Wizard might collect full Province, full Source, full Law and full Manor... a Legendary Fighter might collect full Province, full Law, full Manor, ½ Guild, ½ Trade.
Possibly spread it out a bit more, start with lower collection, etc. That way you are neither rewarded nor punished for multiclassing, with regards to Regency collection anyway.

"Bound" bonuses is a good thing. Keeping the bonus between 0 and +12 makes thing manageable and the math easier.

[Ruideside/OM (RP)]

I agree with the limited number of "levels' being a good thing, but I dislike how the skills are tied so directly to actions - but then again, I am an old time role player who suffers from an incurable case of DM's Disease and am prone to invent extensive back stories for a beggar who the party meets and ignores and thus live for the "fluff".

[Really? Gosh Bob, we never would have guessed!]

[Ruideside/OM (RP)]

I much prefer that a player must cite his various skills and explain how they should be relevant to whatever he is trying to do than to say "I have X skill in Rule Law". I much prefer he have to say "I have Rhetoric X, and my Chamberlain has Administration X and I have Persuasion X" and then devises a method of making use of those skills.

Come on guys, we're not sitting around a table with everybody rushing us to hurry up so they can get to do their thing, we have at a minimum two weeks to work this stuff out - put in the effort, and the game will be far more entertaining.

[Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde)]

I think it will be both easier to manage and more fair if skills or proficiencies are linked to specific actions.

The DMs can already award role play and description bonus. And to degrade proficiencies to fluff that can only be used to that is IMO not desirable.
To make proficiencies a bonus in that case is even worse. Someone will harvest large bonuses for thinking to the DMs liking others will be shafted.

[Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde)]

As it is right now description alters DAC like this I think:
No description: -2
Description: +0
Good description:+2

The description can be a description of how the action is solved, a transcript of a conversation between important characters in your domain, or anything you find interesting and related.

If you have to think skills and bonuses into descriptions then descriptions will be: "The character does x with this skill, supported by this other character who does Y with this other skill." .... Is that interesting for the DMs to read? And is it interesting for players to write?

[X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)]

The problem with having broad skills that are circumstantially applied is that it works great in tabletop/chat/voice play, but not so great in pbem play. It requires a constant stream of information back and forth.

It's great, I love that part of play (hell, my favorite system Burning Wheel emphasizes this to a very high degree), but I don't think that's it is feasible for pbem play.

A descriptive bonus makes sense and you can definitely leverage things that are established in the fiction to help with those. Fx it's is established that my character is charismatic, so in my description I explain how he talks to all the important people, smooth feathers, etc, while doing my Rule Law action. This helps me get that +2 bonus from description, but other than that it is my Knowledge (Law) proficiency that provides the bonus.

EDIT: Not that it's necessarily how we do it this time. That's how Bjørn (kinda) did it and what seems intuitive to me.

[Ruideside/OM (RP)]

Someone will harvest large bonuses for thinking to the DMs liking others will be shafted.

Welcome to role playing.

"The character does x with this skill, supported by this other character who does Y with this other skill." .... Is that interesting for the DMs to read? And is it interesting for players to write?

Yes, it's far more interesting than writing "I have 2 levels in Rule manor, so my final goes up by 2"
Personally, I would much rather read or write "My bard, who has X levels of performance (singing) goes travelling through Dhoesone, singing tales of how marvellous a place Boerstand is, and how generous and just an overlord I am." and then let the DM decide how much of an effect that may have.

This pointless to argue, you are of the video game mentality, where everything is predictable and calculable and works the same way every time for everybody, and I am not. I much prefer having to figure out ways to make use of realistic skills and talents to achieve the underlying aim of the action. To me, that is the essence of role playing, whether I am role playing a cunning guttersnipe starting out in the stews of Helltown, or if I am role playing High Emperor Kron - the principle is the same, what skills do I and my associates have that might be of use to me in any given situation.

Even a skill as mundane as Cobbler can be of use, "I make a pair of superb ladies riding boots which I present to the countess as a gift when requesting she intervene on my behalf with her husband Count Olaf" is far more interesting and entertaining than "I have Diplomacy 1."