Influence

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

"No Presence"  -- effectively this means that when creating a holding in a province (when you have none) -- cannot be affected by any RP or GB, right?

Diplomacy in the Sword & Crown, most regents don't have holdings in the Imperial City, and therefore couldn't spend influence on the actions?

[X-MOC/Leman States (Even)]

Not sure I like this change. It's very inconsistent with actions such as Create Province (and Holding) are noted with Influence being applicable. The old 5RP/1GB seemed to work quite reasonably.

[DM B]

"No Presence"  -- effectively this means that when creating a holding in a province (when you have none) -- cannot be affected by any RP or GB, right?

Diplomacy in the Sword & Crown, most regents don't have holdings in the Imperial City, and therefore couldn't spend influence on the actions?

Diplomacy is not tied to any holdings - Holdings not relevant; read the diplomacy example on p. 74

[DM B]

Not sure I like this change. It's very inconsistent with actions such as Create Province (and Holding) are noted with Influence being applicable. The old 5RP/1GB seemed to work quite reasonably.

No holding applicable for creating province/holding; so you get the 2RP/1GB rate.

[DM B]

I'm altering the way Influence is used starting on turn 67.

The main reasons for the change is the new DDC calculations for things like rule holding, the new (yet to be published advantage/hardiness rule), plus a general need to change things from time to time...

Stay tuned...I think you'll find the new system much easier to use.

[DM B]

So here is the deal:

RP&GB will count equally for purposes of Influence (yes, that will change several dynamic-balance-thingies; intentionally - for example, guilders are too effective when compared to other regents, now their gold will be worth comparatively less to then, but even more to other regents...as loans and gifts...which I think is a vast improvement).

Positive Influence gives you a bonus to your DAC (either specified Effort or from Offensive Pool/Purse)
Negative Influence increases the DDC of your opponent (from Defensive Pool/Purse)

1 RP&GB buy +1 Influence

BUT (inspired by how I do character skills in BR) there are THRESHOLDS of diminishing returns (which was the real reason behind the 1/2/3/4/5 RP per influence in he first place, only this works MUCH better)

The first 5 Influence costs 1 RP/GB per +1
The next 5 Influence costs 2 RP/GB per +1 (15 total for a +10 bonus)
The next 5 Influence costs 3 RP/GB per +1 (30 total for a +15 bonus)

This will help limit the Always 2+ syndrome and make it more worthwhile to use Realm actions.

I need to carefully check all the action mods so that no action gets to difficult/expensive to use.

More later.

[X-SASI/Orthien Tane (Rune)]

Forgive me if I'm being ignorant, but won't this just make it even more expensive to rule up holdings? As a guilder, that does account for quite a lot of my actions, especially since I'm a non-landed guilder. So basically that will limit my actions even more, if I wish to expand my holdings. My first impression of this is that I can either sit with what I have now and have money to do other actions (which will also be more expensive), or decide to play the rule-up game (until the coffers run dry) and do nothing else.

Yes I'm putting it a bit strong, and I do understand some of your arguments for doing this, but it does at least hit (some of) the guilders quite hard.

[DM B]

That is incorrect.

Your RP now becomes more suitable for use as Influence. Your Gbs remain just as useful. But the balance of power between the two is altered in favor of the RP - but only when it comes to Influence. Gbs are still the only viable currency to pay for things* (5Rp = 1Gb just isn't worth it). So there may be a slight disadvantage for those who have large incomes, but it is not too big (and besides, Gbs were much to effective when compared to RP so this is a good fix).

The only thing this rule does, is to slightly increase the cost when using a lot of Influence. At +10 Influence you pay 15 RP/GB (as opposed to 20RP or 10G today). It's only at +11 and above it becomes rather more expensive. But you should rarely need more than +10 Influence...as you'll try to harvest various supportive, misc, synergy and other bonuses for those crucial actions (that's how it's supposed to be anyway).

[X-SASI/Orthien Tane (Rune)]

Ok, we'll just see how it works out. I am having a hard time seeing how my gold can be worth more to other landed regents though, considering they suddenly got more influential power (since their RP gives more "bang for the bucks"). Wouldn't it cause my gold to be worth less, since they can do more on their own?

Maybe I'm just suffering from the monday morning/afternoon/evening syndrome. Or maybe I'm just stupid in general 

[DM B]

Ok, we'll just see how it works out. I am having a hard time seeing how my gold can be worth more to other landed regents though, considering they suddenly got more influential power (since their RP gives more "bang for the bucks"). Wouldn't it cause my gold to be worth less, since they can do more on their own?

Maybe I'm just suffering from the monday morning/afternoon/evening syndrome. Or maybe I'm just stupid in general 

You would think so, but remember it is a null-sum game; everyone gets more! And the Threshold rule means they will be needing those RP and their own Gb for influence, just as before. And how are they going to finance those wars then? By loans. From you. Who might even have slightly more gold to spare now that your RP is more useful for other tasks.

[X-SASI/Orthien Tane (Rune)]

Hehe, ok. I'll leave it for now and see how it goes. No point in whining about something before trying it out, right? 

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

Is this effect now or for Turn #67?

[DM B]

Is this effect now or for Turn #67?

Definitely NOT now. This is the Development Board. It will appear in The Herald once it's official.

Side note: Congrats on being our first 1000-post Sovereign.

[X-MOC/Leman States (Even)]

  Gasp, we're going down the route of diminishing return! Soon the circle will be complete and we'll all be playing with the Rollmaster system, or the even mroe complex Bjorn-master.

On a more serious note, how will the previous effect of scaled cost in relation to type of influencing holding work? Different cut off thresholds for different holding types?

[DM B]

Gasp, we're going down the route of diminishing return! Soon the circle will be complete and we'll all be playing with the Rollmaster system, or the even mroe complex Bjorn-master.

On a more serious note, how will the previous effect of scaled cost in relation to type of influencing holding work? Different cut off thresholds for different holding types?

It won't. As long as you have a holding/province rulership you can use Influence. If you don't, you can't (only exception are actions such as Diplomacy that aren't tied to a province - anyone can use regency on those).