Shadow Ward

[X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)]

Spell Effect: Gives a +1 loyalty modifier, as the common people fear the Shadow, and are grateful for any protection.

A +1 loyalty modifier to what?

I can see a couple of likely options:
1) Province prosperity.
2) All actions taken by the caster in the province for the duration of the spell.

Option 1 is the quick and easy solution, however the benefit accrues to the province owner and not the casting temple. Considering that it's a loyalty modifier this option seems wrong to me.

Option 2 seems to be the intent of the spell in my opinion, the people feel grateful to the person who cast the spell and in return make their life a little bit easier when they try to do things.

[X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)]

More probably prosperity - the populace would feel safer under this protection.

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

Prospertiy without question.  The difference being that this isn't a temporary bonus, I believe (so it is like an agitate action occured in the province).

[X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)]

More probably prosperity - the populace would feel safer under this protection.

Prospertiy without question.  The difference being that this isn't a temporary bonus, I believe (so it is like an agitate action occured in the province).

Initially prosperity jumped into my head as the most appropriate thing, but after some further thought I'm not sure that it is what is intended. In fact I don't even think that it is the best way to apply the +1 loyalty modifier.

Consider the situation where the spell is cast. The temple regent spends a significant amount of time and effort, their priests are out and about, casting spells and wardings accross the land and gathering the faithful. The spell is cast and there is a pervasive effect of divine magic accross the land.

So obviously the people feel safer, but what it comes down to is who do the people feel loyal towards for this safety?

If you are saying that the modifier is to prosperity then the people feel more loyal towards the province owner as a side effect of a spell cast by a temple?

This just doesn't come accross as being internally consistent to me.

Personally I think the +1 modifier to actions taken in the province by the casting temple for the duration of the spell makes more sense.

This is something that can then be converted to prosperity improvments via (slightly) easier agitates etc if the temple is in good with the province owner.

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

Incidentally, the prosperity effect isn't caused directly by the spell, it is more of an indirect benefit (at least as the spell description alludes). 

But to respond to you...

Prosperity, 99.9% of the time, affects all domains within the province equally - not just the province ruler.  Landed regents do suffer from its effects more readily though (land regents are more directly tied to the land and people in a sense), but prosperity is a huge amalgamation of numerous factors all which points towards the general welfare and state of a province.  Domain loyalty is also represented by the stability score.  A negative score to stability often represents a domain that is going to go through some very difficult times.

From the regent guide:

All provinces also have a prosperity level, which is a measure of how well things are going in that province.

Prosperity is a catchall for the many factors that combine to make a province either effective or ineffective. It includes loyalty to the province ruler, but is also a measure of the general well-being of the province.
Prosperity is divided into a number of levels, each of which affects the ruler's ability to govern, collect taxes, and so forth. Prosperity is affected by taxation, wars, random event, and hostile or friendly manipulation (agitate domain actions for example).

Low prosperity means less income and an increase in action difficulty, while high prosperity leads to higher income and lower action difficulty.

Prosperity is applied differently depending on the type of action; often it will apply in equal measure to all domains taking action within the province, not just to the province ruler. For other actions prosperity only applies to the ruler and his allies (such as a state faith). However, in the case of domains that are openly hostile to the province ruler, the DM can rule that a low prosperity may actually aid actions taken against the province ruler or his allies, and vice versa.

Example: The Baron of Roesone has a very low prosperity in Caercas, meaning that the people are pretty dissatisfied. When his enemy, the Duke of Diemed, agitates against him, he actually gets a decrease in the DDC of his agitate action.

[X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)]

I'd disagree with 99.9% of the time. In fact from my experience as a temple regent that is not a state faith I'm at 0%.

Definately it has an effect on my income, but apart from that it's had little numerical impact.

Prosperity: The prosperity of your provinces affects your ability to govern them. Apply the difficulty modifier found in Table 4-9: Prosperity Levels to actions taken by the province ruler.

Hostile actions directed at the province ruler may apply the DDC from prosperity by inverting the modifier.
 
The DM may choose to apply the Prosperity modifier to other regent’s actions as the situation warrants (either to increase or decrease the DDC). For state faiths, royal guilds and court mages, the modifier is usually applied as for the province ruler.

This gives the implication that applying the prosperity modifier to someone that is not the province ruler (or the state faith, etc) is the exception rather than the norm.

I'm not objecting to the bonus being to prosperity, it just doesn't feel like the best fit for the bonus.

For me working from the spell description it feels the best fit for the bonus to accrue first to the casting temple, and to then potentially be shared i.e. State Faith the bonus is shared by the temple with the land owner, or given over i.e. with a decree, look what your wonderful lord commissioned us to do.

The only real way to do that is a special +1 loyalty bonus to actions.

[DM B]

In reality its just one of those poorly worded spells that never got upgraded.

The +1 bonus does refer to Prosperity as worded now. But I agree that the effect is boring and uncreative.

Suggestions are welcome.

[X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)]

Suggestions are welcome.

• A small bonus to all actions in the affected provinces by the casting temple for the duration of the spell.
• A small chance of spontaneous temple growth (people love being protected so much they flock to your temple), possibly decreasing other temples.
• Can cast Protection from Shadow (level 1 Battle Divine Spell that protects troops from shadowspawn) without having it prepared and without using the spell slot in any of the affected provinces, still need to pay the RP cost though.
• Instantly converts all temple holdings in the affected provinces to the worship of Saramie, this one is the best option and is completely balanced and fair.

The last one is not serious, I ran out of ideas after 3.

[X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)]

Remember that this is a minor side effect of the spell, not a major reason for casting it.  A chance of increasing your holding seems out of place.

If we were still using province growth rules more closely, I'd suggest a bonus to that, as people move to safer lands.  I like the idea of the spell extending down to the battle level as well.  I can see it having a major, story-based bonus to prosperity over time in areas that have been really blighted with nastiness, like the northern lands that have been suffering so many undead attacks, as well.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

How about:

Casting domain treated as having +1 stability for actions wholly carried out within the provinces covered by the Shadow Ward?

Plain, simple, only affects the temple.

I find the existing prosperity bonus fairly reasonable, if people are going out more, being more open, etc then the overall prosperity will go up, the temple gets part of the bonus of course, but if they want to really benefit then, as with BTHL, they need to get some kick-back from the local regents.

I note incidentally that the DAC bonus from +1 prosperity can be fairly significant - saving a maximum of 20 RP if it moves the regent into a take 10 stage on a vital action, in a rebellious provinces it could be the difference between making an action possible or not.  Whether the bonus should stack with BTHL or other spells is less clear.

The idea of a long term benefit also sounds good to me - right now north Alamie is crying out for a 3-5 year continuous shadow ward...

[X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)]

Ok, lets go back to the core purpose of the spell, Shadow Ward makes the Shadow's life harder in a province(s).

So you have the core impact of reinforcing the veil, etc.

But we all like the idea of some secondary impact.

So keeping in theme:

• supresses all prosperity modifiers caused by the Shadow or Shadow creatures for the duration of the spell.
• can cast Protection from Shadow (level 1 Battle Divine Spell that protects troops from shadowspawn) once per turn without having it prepared and without using the spell slot in any of the affected provinces, still need to pay the RP cost of the spell.
• if the spell is active at the end of Winter then the province receives +1 prosperity (i.e. the dead of Winter is the time when people most fear the shadow so being protected at this time is worth a special bonus).

Number 1 works in with the counter the shadow theme, not as powerful as the current +1 prosperity but situationally more powerful (i.e. stronger if the shadow is involved).

Number 2 is situational, you need enough Undead in the province to get a battle but if you do then it gives you a benefit (provided you have a spellcaster in the battle who can cast realm magic).

Number 3 works with number 1 to keep the effect on the same power level as the current version of the spell.

This change would engourage the spell to be used when you have negative impacts from the Shadow, it would also encourage it to be used at ritual times, i.e. a Shadow Ward on the winter solstice.

It also gives some benefit when you have a divine regent fighting in the battle against the Shadow.

[DM B]

Intent: To protect against SW incursions/effects.

Effect: Prevents breaches of the veil; i.e. negates some events (by extension it negates negative prosperity modifiers from such events), prevents SW beasties from being summoned into the province, blocks the EO's necromantic magic from sapping the life out of affected provinces. That sort of thing.

A secondary effect should be tied into the above; the current +1 prosp is probably not the best effect since it replicates Bless Land.

[X-Tuornen/LF (Geir)]

so, then what was wrong with the plain +1 loyalty modifier?
Of course it could be fun if there was a side effect that made it rain pink rabbits but that too would quickly get boring.

Is my Regent Guide 12.12.08 outdated? It has SW with the +1 loyalty modifier....

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

~Caster holdings levels are treated as double for the purposes of Advantage and Hardiness
~ Holding + 1 for the purposes of income (GB/RP)  (GB/RP because wizards can cast the spell and they should get benefit from the secondary effect)

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

so, then what was wrong with the plain +1 loyalty modifier?
Of course it could be fun if there was a side effect that made it rain pink rabbits but that too would quickly get boring.

Is my Regent Guide 12.12.08 outdated? It has SW with the +1 loyalty modifier....

loyalty = prosperity.