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Author Topic: Vassals  (Read 15098 times)

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Offline DM B

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Vassals
« on: July 04, 2009, 10:06:03 PM »
For the life of me there is one thing I do not understand; why does the majority of players treat their vassals by A) Ignoring them and/or B) Treat them as enemies?

Properly handled your vassals can be a huge asset...but it seems that players think they are a pain in the behind...to the extent that they'll gladly ignore external threats to throttle their own servants. Seems a waste to me...

Is it the modern mindset or is it just that the players, being old hands at all sorts of games, think of them as obstacles that must be dealt with...the sooner the better?
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Offline X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 10:09:27 PM »
I shall answer this question in an email to you Bjorn if that is okay, but I do have some answers to this question.  ;)
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2009, 08:53:28 AM »
Hmmm, I have been trying to incorporate my vassals a little more...for the most part I think there is some confusion in regards to the extent that you need to have things worked out with vassals.

For instance, could I ask a Baron to negotiate with another kingdom on my behalf?  Do I need to use a diplomacy action to give him that authority, etc, etc.
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Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2009, 10:59:05 AM »
I have for the main part been "ignoring" my vassal somewhat. That is not because I want to, but more because the one vassal I have is so minuscule, that I'd rather use my actions on other things.

I did ask politely for some soldiers, and the vassal did comply though, that opened my eyes somewhat, as I actually didn't think he owned soldiers in that magnitude in the first place :)
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Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2009, 09:40:14 PM »
Well... Asking my vassals to do something in the past was no success. And when I tried talking to each individually it took too much of DM's time...

Its difficult to know the balance.

But I do plan to speak more to them... I need them I guess. Simply aren't enough actions otherwise.
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2009, 03:28:39 PM »
Additionally, most of the NPCs are vassals and asking them to do things seems to place a burden on the DMs...
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Offline X-Mieres & SAS/AV (Mark)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 03:30:01 PM »
Some of us have servants that need a good throttling  ;D
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Offline X-Mhoried/Droene Kavarra (Iasonas)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 07:19:28 AM »
Vassals, what vassals?

Oh, you mean those guys trying their best to please me? What about them? What do you mean they have needs and plans?  ::) :o

Seriously though, even though I try to keep them in mind they usually remain hidden in the background, behind that mist of new plans, and old plans gone awry. A lot of details to keep in mind!
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Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 10:57:47 AM »
Its not like they actually make contact and offer stuff to get what they want. They just moan and complain.  :)
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Offline X-EOM/SS (Marco)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 07:25:50 AM »
I have no vassals...so I can't use them :'(
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Offline DM B

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 01:25:50 PM »
But you are a vassal yourself...
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Offline X-EOM/SS (Marco)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 07:29:18 AM »
until now my liege had asked very little to me 8)
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Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 07:01:34 PM »
Quote from: DM Bjørn on July 04, 2009, 10:06:03 PM
For the life of me there is one thing I do not understand; why does the majority of players treat their vassals by A) Ignoring them and/or B) Treat them as enemies?

Properly handled your vassals can be a huge asset...but it seems that players think they are a pain in the behind...to the extent that they'll gladly ignore external threats to throttle their own servants. Seems a waste to me...

Is it the modern mindset or is it just that the players, being old hands at all sorts of games, think of them as obstacles that must be dealt with...the sooner the better?

I think it is the same syndrome that drives people to insanity in the attempts at 'world conquest' in games such as Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron (and other strategy games). Only one colour is acceptable on the map, even if the game stops being interesting after about a third is conquered. Similarly only one regent is acceptable in a domain.
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2009, 09:46:44 PM »
Quote from: MOC/Leman States (Even) on July 21, 2009, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: DM Bjørn on July 04, 2009, 10:06:03 PM
For the life of me there is one thing I do not understand; why does the majority of players treat their vassals by A) Ignoring them and/or B) Treat them as enemies?

Properly handled your vassals can be a huge asset...but it seems that players think they are a pain in the behind...to the extent that they'll gladly ignore external threats to throttle their own servants. Seems a waste to me...

Is it the modern mindset or is it just that the players, being old hands at all sorts of games, think of them as obstacles that must be dealt with...the sooner the better?

I think it is the same syndrome that drives people to insanity in the attempts at 'world conquest' in games such as Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron (and other strategy games). Only one colour is acceptable on the map, even if the game stops being interesting after about a third is conquered. Similarly only one regent is acceptable in a domain.

I completely agree with you, Even.  But I had a bit of an epiphany recently.  There is truly no way for a landed regent to accomplish everything that he SHOULD accomplish -- it takes entirely too many actions, somethings would have to be sacrificed.

Yet, with some gold and diplomacy, vassals are immensely valuable in helping accomplish everything.

I note though, this is a very new thing for me and I imagine it is very time consuming for Bjorn, so at some point, we need to determine a way to make it less work-intensive for Bjorn.
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Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...

Offline DM B

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Re: Vassals
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 09:57:34 PM »
Keep it relatively short and sweet. Vassals with whom you have good relations will only be happy to do stuff for you - since they know this scores them points with the boss.
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