Regarding Goblins

[DM B]

The Book of Laws clearly states that 'thou shalt not suffer the spawn of evil to live'

Truth be told the good book those explicitly name goblins as spawn of evil...but then again, if they are not, who are? In any case Orthodox dogma has always been keen on extermination of goblins.

[X-Alamie (Alex)]

The Archduke looks, in turn, at the Holy Men, of the WIT and OIT. Meanwhile his Lady wife cannot help but notice a certain smugness, passing as a cloud during summer's day, in the features of her husband and liege.

[DM B]

Marquis Bellamie of Morcosoer (not the same man as BAROn Bellamie of South Hold!) stands and speaks with a clear voice:

"What does it matter if goblins are irredeemably evil or not? At best they are vermin, and the only thing to do with vermin is to kill them as soon as you see them. Fail to do that - he looks toward the Patriarch - and they multiply and become are serious pest problem."

There is some general laughter.

[X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)]

"While it can be understood that the individual Goblin or such like creatures may contain their own virtue and some measure of loyalty, it MUST be said that as a tribe, nation or even as a race they do not evidence so. They must be dealt with as outlined in the Book and all these new fangled and wooly attitudes of new liberal thought must be seen for what they are - the seperation from and direct path away from those common sense and wise teachings we have all come to live by."

"Drive them from those places we inhabit or they will nip and bite and infect like the rats they are so close to. Treat and talk with them at your souls peril."

[X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)]

Kaven rises.
"Tell me, Lord Marquis: Would you say the same about robbers in your lands? Or do you judge the goblins based on their alien features and green skin?

It matters, because if we can cull the goblins and start integrating them in our Anuirean society, then our children, or childrens children, will not have to fight the same wars or beat back the same numbers of raiders, as we currently do. Anuire faces enough threats, that we might be forced to accept that some things must change for us to endure..."

Turning to Ghieste, he continues.
"Goblins, peaceful goblins currently residing in Medoere, contributed in part to stop attempted raids into our lands by the Spiders forces. Granted, we had to contact them, and are constantly aware of possible differences in allegience, but by talking to these goblins, we derived possible routes and thus was able to effectively stop raids from the Fell... I do believe Medoere is the only realm who suffered of these raids recently, that can claim to have done so. That alone, should speak volumes of the routes people like myself and the Patriarch try to advocate."

[DM B]

Bellamie:

"I judge them only by their action and those of their forefathers...and the words of mighty Haelyn, as written in the Book of Laws. Robbers I deal with according to the laws of the land.

So yes, if it pleases you, I do judge them by their skin, because this is what Haelyn, the wise and noble Allfather has told us to do.

In you eagerness to engage in foolish philosophy...have you forgotten that the goblins sides with AZRAI, the face of evil, prince of lies and lord of all that is wicked and bad? The very same Azrai, the Conclave claims, nearly returned not five years ago! And what side do you think the goblins would have taken if THAT HAD COME TO PASS!!!???"

There is much agreement.

[X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)]

"Hear, hear!"

[X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)]

"Be that as it may... and no, Lord Marquis, I had Not forgotten... the Anuirean society readily accepts those *humans* who choose to side with the Darkness but wishes to redeem themself... why can we not be so lenient towards goblins?

Have you considered, Lord Marquis, that we Anuireans may currently, and might have so for a long time, be forcing goblins to choose side by way of the ancient proverb 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'? Humans where once the invaders of Anuire as history would recall, and society as a whole has a longer memory than the individual.
Why, I do seem to recall tales, that the elves sided with Azrai against humans for that very reason, but turned against him in the last instance. Peacefull relations where later made with them.
Granted, they are a fairer lot as a whole, to look at... but should that be the measure by which we decide who is friend and who is foe?"

He pauses, then adds.
"And may I add, that the most direct threats to Anuire does not stem from goblins, but rather wicked men and treachery from within."

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Robhan speaks calmly during a pause in the debate:

At Deismaar the elves - even the elves who are known above all for their ability to hold a grudge eternally - turned away from Azrai when they finally saw the truth our ancestors had known for centuries.  They made peace treaty with the Empire as it formed and few have been heard of since in peace or war - save those few of Rhoubhe that remain outcast even from their own kind.  The elves have never been part of the empire, but they proved that their 'service' to the Shadow was but ill-conceived military alliance when they turned on him at Deismaar - were it not for their inherent godlessness I would judge the Vos far more harshly than the elves!

Have goblins ever forsaken their past in such a manner?  Indeed were goblins not shaped by the Dark Lord to suit his whim as were the orogs, gnolls, and ogres?  Are we asked to accept all these misshapen brutes to move freely amongst us - with shield and sword should they so wish?

The odd rare few goblins have perhaps proven themselves redeemed - but then does that not merely prove that the vast remainder willingly choose to raid and make war upon us and so deserve our hate and scorn in fullest measure?  Does it not prove that the centuries of savagery we are all so bitterly familiar with from goblin realms on our border, are not, as some might say, result of circumstance or outside pressure, but rather the true measure of their soul?

Goblins come in many kinds, and perhaps there are even some lighter shades of grey within the gloom that is the soul of their race that approach the depths of the Vos or other dark specimens of humanity; but can any really say that if left to their own devices, and grown strong in time, even those goblins currently living peaceably would not revert to brutality?  A small goblin village may live in peace beside a far greater number of Anuireans, but that is peace borne of fear - not from true desire for mutual growth and respect for our lives.

When I see goblin nations of pride and power stand forth and ask for peace, trade fairly, turn away from the worship of demons, and look to honest labour to provide them with their needs not loot and plunder, then I will consider them more than dangerous beasts, but that day is far, far away - and not one example of such a realm has ever been told of to my knowledge.

Perhaps the good Patriarch of Elenie will prove me wrong, Haelyn be praised if he can for the scions of evil will lose their most willing and numerous followers if the goblins ever forswear evil, perhaps the seeds spoken of in Medoere will grow to show godly fruit, if so I will cheer - but in my heart I know that eternal vigilance will be required to prevent goblins turning on any who consider themselves the goblins' master and wrecking havok on all that was built through their labours.

So for my part I will consider this debate no further, should the coming decades provide evidence to support the hopes of those who see light in even the darkest shadows then I will reconsider my stance, until then I will keep my blade sharp and my troops ready - and stand ready to give my life in the defence of any folk of godly mien who stand defiant 'gainst the dark hordes that would sweep civilisation from this land if good men but slumbered while they advanced.

[DM B]

Baron Maevous Khaiarén of Rivien, Robhan's oldest brother, and vassal to Boeruine speaks:

"Ever fascinated with elves...when we played at Deismaar in our youth, he would always beg to be and elf, and we would cast him as a goblin instead. Perhaps that is why his head does not fit too well onto that body of his..."

There is much laughter as all the lord recall similar 'battles' in their childhoods

"I say onto you - the sidhe are no better or worse than are goblins. Meaning they a wretched vermin, servants of evil, and enemy of all that is noble and good! Turned away from Azrai you say? More like betrayed him, like they betrayed all that was good and noble when they joined him. And before that...they spent 500 years trying to kill our forefathers!

Even today good men, Anuirean men, followers of the Allfather - they fight and the die on the blades of the Sidhe. As the men of Tuornen ask the men of Boeruine...and ask the commoners of cold Dhoesone what they do when the Hunt rides again!"

There is not so much laughter now...

"Enough of this foolishness! Elves and goblins are not men. They are Other. They are Enemy. So HAS THE LORD DECREED, SO IT IS AND SO IT WILL ALWAYS REMAIN!!!"

His words are loud and his demeanor both agitated and wroth.

"Any man, any man at all, who claims that goblins or elves are the good friends of man or that they even can be trusted, those men are heretics. They take the words of the Allfather and twist them, finding new meaning where none should be found. Such men as they are traitors to their kind, for in their cowardice and weakness that seek to undermine the foundations of what is Anuire."

He pauses and looks over the crowd.

"You think me harsh? Well, imagine what I think of you. For too long have I sat here listening to southern prattle, such as can only be mouthed by those to corrupt and weak to understand what t is to be a man of Anuire."

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Robhan snorts in amusement at the memory - perhaps brother, perhaps - ever does a fair face reveal naught but light while the dark soul within laughs at the fool for their gullible stare; but harken ye to my words - I spoke no goodwill of Rhoubhe that embraced darkness and never turned aside, nor those who willingly followed him - and do so still.  Those elves - each and every one of those yet standing - were declared enemy by Haelyn and Roele themselves whilst mortal - and no sign have I heard of since to lift that decree.

Those who betrayed the Shadow have been silent since - I can judge them not by their absences when so many others have failed to answer calls for aid - but be assured, should they ever strike against the folk of Anuire then they will answer to my blade as swiftly as they will your own.  Until then I judge the goblins that raid incessantly far more harshly than those few elves who huddle in lonely woods and dream of times long ago.

As to heresy, the innocent child seek friends of all despite the wise words of their elders - even of wolf pups that wander from the forest as I recall, Robhan rubs his arm absently as he speaks, I condemn not those blessedly ignorant of evil's true measure for not recognising scourging fire as the path to purity - instead I stand by to aid them when, inevitably, that wolf tires of what little providence they can spare and seeks heartier fare - as you did long ago.

So stay your wrath brother - it has worthier targets.  Stand proud and defiant to taunts of 'old ideas' and 'prejudice' - in your heart you know that you will be proved right and all will thank you for your lonely vigilance - and you need nothing more.  Robhan pauses reflectively, save perhaps some mulled cinnamon mead on a cold eve - the harvest was fine last autumn and I owe you a case from that tourney last summer as I recall.

[X-DM Jon]

Archmage of the Conclave of Sorcery, Maester Kaleiman, takes the floor.

 "I do not usually care for the endless political discussions of you nobles and priests, but this is INTRIGUING! So let me lay out a quick summary of the Colleges research on the ancient goblin race..."

 The old man composes his thoughts before continuing in a clear lecturing tone. As if he's talking to a bunch of college students and not the lords and ladies of Anuire.

"There are certain... Errors of perception... In the good High Marshalls portrayal of the facts.

First of all; the goblins have been around since before the Shadow chased the Anuirean people out of Aduria. They are a species with myths as old as the elves. Indeed the two races have been long at odds with one another.

 We have, through painstaking investigation into the most ancient of tablets, sources and documents, come to the conclusion that a main part of the reason why the Anuirean settlers were succesful, was due to an endless chain of conflict between the two races.

 It has often been claimed that our priesthoods were what made the difference, but that is merely a factor amongst many."

 At this, several representatives of the Orthodox and Traditionalist temples murmur angrily, words like "heresy" and such, but the old man continues relentlessly.

 "Indeed the Gods were not as important a factor in the creation of our Anuirean nations, as were the retreating elves. Research shows that man worked first as elven allies against the goblins, then as usurpers of elven forests and lands, as the goblins had been driven back. Opportunistic to the last, humanity grasped every last chance they could for victory. Just as it is today.
 Our glorious victory over the elves was a victory over a wartorn and weary race.

 That is why the elves so readily joined Azrai, they saw not the Shadow, but the Keeper of Secrets. They saw a chance to even the score against the encroaching, backstabbing humans. The goblins just saw raw unbridled power and bent their knees before it!

 Therein lies the truth of their being. They respect force! Not ethics. You will rarely, if ever, see them change side due to a question of good or evil. If you understand that, then perhaps you are able to admire their purity. They are survivors. Unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

The goblins of Thurazor are a testiment to this. They are kept in check by strong neighbours to the west and work as mercenaries for Dhoesone in the east. They raid where they can and learn a human trade where they must.

 IF the good lords of Anuire were to show strength in Markazor, greater strength than any goblin lord or awnsheglien, then the goblins there could, feasibly, become something akin to the goblins of Thurazor. Not controlled, but not uncontrollable either.

 Try to eradicate them and you will only scatter them, and create a need for them to unite under a leader powerful enough.

 That is why I see GREAT PROMISE in the Patriarch's thoughts."

[X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)]

"Thank you, Maester!" Kaven states, as he leans forward once more.
"Men die to protect our ideals... that is a fact at the moment, but it is also an undeniable fact that the biggest threat to our way of life does not lie with the goblins. Nay, the shadow has chosen other aspects to haunt our homes, as we have culled the threat and diminished any attacks to raids from various bands of hungry goblinoids.

Words, such as those of Lord Baron Maevous are excactly the words that lead to a continued conflict. As the good Maester Kaleiman states, we scatter the foe and force them to unite, when assimilation under a strenghtened human rule would be the innovative, and perhaps wiser, move.
I am not saying that we should throw down our weapons and embrace the foe, no. This is a lengthy project, and trust is no where to be found from either race towards the other. But we should consider the thought, that peace... or perhaps a permanent ceasefire... could be lurking in the horison."

[X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)]

The baron listens attentively at Maester Kaleiman's words

"In this the teachings of Cuiraecen seem best suited to dealing with the goblins. Strength and wisdom. Alas, I doubt this will ever be a good enough solution in the South for as long as the Spider lives, but it might work where goblins remain free from his influence. I will certainly follow the development of the goblin situation in Elinie with great interest.

I have no desire to exterminate the goblins if that would mean that even a single of my subjects would die unnecessarily, but I will certainly remain vigilant and merciless against any goblin raider daring to set foot into Roesone.

And as for this whole debate on the inherent and irredeemable evil imposed on the whole race, well, then we'd have to apply the same principle on all those who have elven or Vos blood in them, and yet we accept as our peers the fair ladies of Tornilen and Tuornen. I'd certainly defend them against would be persecutors and witch hunters should someone threaten them on account of their heritage, and if there were a goblin proven honorable and true, I'd defend him also, for that is what my faith in the Stormlord the Defender requires.

However, I have yet to meet such a goblin anywhere in this world"

[DM B]

Baron Maevous calms down a little after hearing his brother speak.

Then Blaede Khaiarén, Baron of Soileite (Elinie) and second oldest of the brothers speak up:

"I have dealt with both sidhe and goblin in my time. And I must say that it has left me suspicious and wary. Goblins are tricky and treacherous, and can only be trusted as far as you can throw them. And the smaller the more devious."

General laughter

"I cannot claim to know who created the wretched race or if they are as a race inherently evil; but I do know, from my own experience, that as individuals there is little moral strength in them. So while I do not condone the killing of goblin 'innocents' such as there might be, I challenge any man here to tell me of a goblin friend or loved one."

"The sidhe are even more difficult. For they certainly look fair upon the outside! Yet the sidhe can be more cruel than any goblin, and more fickle and treacherous too. Does that make all of them evil? Perhaps not; but that doesn't mean they can be trusted."