Author Topic: Construction  (Read 21750 times)

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Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Construction
« on: December 14, 2008, 03:51:09 PM »
Is it possibly to increase the speed of the Construction action? Similar to the Fortify action?
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Offline DM B

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Re: Construction
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2008, 06:28:36 PM »
Yes. Using the same guidelines as for Fortify.
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Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2008, 06:50:46 PM »
Under construction there is a list of "wondrous structures" one can build. I'm interested specifically in the "Halls of learning" i.e. is that a classic university or can it be further specialized like "college of war" or a "fine arts academy" or even a "classic university + specialty" etc.
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Offline DM B

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Re: Construction
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 06:53:40 PM »
Its a classic university (look at the effects), but I'm sure it could be used as a basis for other similar structures. The list is by no means exhaustive.
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 06:53:52 PM »
A number of structures, have very high costs when compared to other structures which have similar bonuses.

Great Cathedral vs. Hall of Justice for instance.

Is this on purpose?
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 06:55:01 PM »
Could you expend multiple court actions on the same construction project? (it doesn't seem to be the case, but I wanted to clarify).
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Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2008, 11:53:30 PM »
Could you expend multiple court actions on the same construction project? (it doesn't seem to be the case, but I wanted to clarify).

No, you only spend one Court action to start a construction project, then a free action each turn to progress it. If you want to speed up the construction you can double the amount spent each turn, but total cost of project increases by 20%. Same rules as for fortifications as referred to by Bjørn.
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Offline DM B

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Re: Construction
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 09:13:35 AM »
A number of structures, have very high costs when compared to other structures which have similar bonuses.

Great Cathedral vs. Hall of Justice for instance.

Is this on purpose?

They are not similar - a Cathedral's effect extends into any province in which you have a holding. Hall of Justice only works for your own realm.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2008, 12:05:11 PM »
A number of structures, have very high costs when compared to other structures which have similar bonuses.

Great Cathedral vs. Hall of Justice for instance.

Is this on purpose?

They are not similar - a Cathedral's effect extends into any province in which you have a holding. Hall of Justice only works for your own realm.

Text in rules for Grand Cathedral says: "You get a +2 asset bonus on all
Create holding (temple) and Rule holding (temple) actions."

But Bjørn imply a limit that its only where you allready have a holding - do I misunderstand rule text or Bjørn? Meaning will I only get the +2 for create a holding where I have holdings allready?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 01:10:55 PM by IHH/Pontiff Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) »
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2008, 05:26:40 PM »
They are not similar - a Cathedral's effect extends into any province in which you have a holding. Hall of Justice only works for your own realm.

The Hall of Justice still has a global effect: The DDC of any hostile regent trying to contest your law holdings (anywhere) is increased by 2.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 06:36:33 PM »
Grand Cathedral
cost 75 GB
DDC 20
Upkeep 1 GB/turn
+2 asset bonus on all Creat holding (temple)and Rule holding (temple)

Especially DDC 20 is VERY high. Like it takes not less than 25 turns assuming no failures.

Compare it to Hall of Justice
Cost 50 GB
DDC 18
Upkeep 0.5 GB

+2 asset bonus on all Creat holding (Law) and Rule holding (Law)

The DDC of ANY regent trying to contest your law holdings (anywhere) is increased with 2.

Additionally get +4 asset bonus an court actions dealing with matters of justice within you own domain

Which is best? Which is hardest to build and most expensive? Which have the highest upkeep? I find Grand Cathedral too expensive. I suggest either reduce price, DDC, upkeep or give it better advantages. Granded Grand Cathedral works in all world but still.. DDC 20? Its almost impossible to build without burning a lot of either GB or RP as influence.. Then if you miss one roll theres a -2 cummultative penalty for next build roll..
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 08:01:41 PM by IHH/Pontiff Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) »
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 08:19:44 PM »
Hmm, 75 GB cost, 1 GB maintenance.  Assuming 3 rule/create actions a round, and you would otherwise pay 2 GB a pop to get the same bonus, the payoff is in 15 turns...

If you do one such action a season (say 1 realm spell, 1 create/rule, 1 diplomacy) then the payoff is a very long way off indeed.

But then there are court actions - which with the support of the local law holder could become very handy with a further +2.  The temple domain with a cathederal then recovers from a contest war very quickly, even though it is reduced as easily, the cost and ease to rebuild is far lower.

Potential other benefits if it is considered over priced:
*  social - big boasting point
* add a point or two to the regency generated by the church (not much use due to topping out, but meh)
* prevent the home-province holding going below 'x' unless the cathederal is seized
* holdings are treated as one level higher for realm spell purposes / caster is treated as 1 level higher.

I think though that the idea is that very few faiths should have them, thus the loong build time.

I'd prefer lower maintenance (the extra tithes and donations would one hopes even out - the nobles should pay more if in a fancy shop church) than lower initial cost to keep them rare - temple domains should take the long view and if you figure it will benefit you for decades then the long pay-off is still worthwhile.

I would suggest though, that if captured by a rival faith, that a fairly chunky conversion cost should be present - while losing it should be a major kick in the teeth prestige wise.
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Offline X-OIT/Narvelon Diem-Avan

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Re: Construction
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 08:21:08 PM »
Such grand structures require the utmost dedication of the regent to pursue over many years, as they should.  If they were cheap and cheerful everyone would have one  :)    It may be that the GM's are open to suggestions of buildings that are not the ultimate structures in their class... are they?
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 01:19:47 AM »
My real big concern is DDC 20 :o

That alone game mechanicwise makes it cheaper (except a very few unusual cases) to speed up building and add 20 percent to the build price - I do not think that was intended. So my really big concern is they are so damned difficult to build.

I say either lower DDC some or throw in an extra use. It could flavourwise be that the +2 bonus also applies defensively when someoneelse tries to take away your temple holdings. In reality flavourwise I also think that having THE Grand Cathedral should help your lawholdings but that would make them unbalanced as lawholdings are probably the best holdings in game and so would make too big an impact.

As Pontiff I Wallac Isilviere High Prefect of the IHH hereby decree that Grand Cathedrals additionally invoke a +2 defensive bonus when some wannabee charletan tries to contest your existing holdings  ;D
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Offline X-Maesil Shippers/ML (Kalle)

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Re: Construction
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 04:33:06 PM »
As i can see from the buildings there are not many that helps guilds that much, are we free to come up with some our self and ask if we can build them, or are they mainly for tempels or land regents?