Levy and Militia

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

Hi to all,

I'm reading the Regent Guide and I'm wondering what is the difference between Levy and Militia.

I think Militia is made of irregulars tranied a bit better than Levy, isn't it?

Marco G. Fossati

[DM B]

That is correct - both are created the same way (by calling the levy), but the militia units are better.

Militia represents commoners who have at least some military training and some military equipment (weapons and some light armor)...think peasant militia or city guards etc.

Levy is true levy - commoners without military training or propper equipment sent to war...

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

a common Levy unit could be made by peasants with no armor and fork and maybe a knife....correct?

if yes how could be useful an unit like this?

Marco G. Fossati

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

Depends on the tasks they are assigned to.

The are typically used to man fortifications, to hold important provinces away from the front-lines, and to offer some protection to supply lines.  They are generally unreliable on the fronts lines but that doesn't mean that they can't provide numbers at least.

[DM B]

a common Levy unit could be made by peasants with no armor and fork and maybe a knife....correct?

if yes how could be useful an unit like this?

Marco G. Fossati

Well, if you can afford not to use them - don't. But they do provide a vast source of instantly available units...and since your opponent will have them, you probably need them too.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Poor troops?  I'd guess that it depends a lot on situation, in the open, facing disciplined mobile units, mass levy's or militia will be cut to ribbons.

With a strong commander who can bully them into a semblance of order, able to attack from a flank and break their enemies formation, or fighting in woods/swamp where heavy armour is a hindrance and formations impossible, the irregular type troops would be quite effective.  Another use is simply in mob war - a single unit of elite knights will be slaughtered by a half-dozen militia units if they surround it even though it is more costly than the accumulated levies.

Remember that we aren't talking about people pulled away from desk jobs, we are talking about farm labourers mostly - people who work in manual labour day in day out and are used to wielding polearms, axes, clubs, etc in their workings lives - that said they are a long way from military, particularly if their shaky formations are breached (they have no internal cohesion and are easily tempted into strategic errors having no military experience).

The real downside of levies is that these are not 'surplus' population, but the blood and bones of the economy - slaughter or capture them and your enemy is left economically crippled not just militarily.  Ransom is the order of the day...

[X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)]

If I remember my military history correctly, in ancient warfare, most lives were lost when battlelines were broken/disrupted.  Levies/Militias have their usage, they strategy/cleverness of a general will be how they are used.

[DM B]

If I remember my military history correctly, in ancient warfare, most lives were lost when battlelines were broken/disrupted.  Levies/Militias have their usage, they strategy/cleverness of a general will be how they are used.

This applies to all unit, not just levies. The rout and subsequent pursuit will result in the killing of many soldiers - pursuit is especially effective when it is cavalry pursuing infantry in the open...

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

I think that Gray's point is that Militia/Levies were not known for holding their ranks, and that casualties tend to be high for those units when in open battle.

[DM B]

I think that Gray's point is that Militia/Levies were not known for holding their ranks, and that casualties tend to be high for those units when in open battle.

In RoE levy units have low defense, so they will be hit more often than say, regulars. But there is more...they also have (very) low morale, so when they ARE hit (which is fairly often) they tend to rout more often than trained professionals.

[X-Mhoired (Dan)]

To borrow a point (sorry for the pending pun) from Lloyd Alexander:

Take the tines off a pitchfork and you'll have four (passable) spears where you might otherwise only have had one...

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

I think that Gray's point is that Militia/Levies were not known for holding their ranks, and that casualties tend to be high for those units when in open battle.

Agree in toto - but as the goblins know well, sheer mass of numbers can be useful.  One point on routing - if you drive the back lot forward fast enough the front have nowhere to go but forward in turn - Russian Commissar style command tactics and horribly bloody - but hard to resist.  Hero's are crucial when routs threaten as they can potentially anchor a line or rally wavering troops, without good leadership I'd expect most levies to rout before they even receive a charge from heavy knights purely from seeing the approaching thunder.  Undead by contrast are so deadly simply because they never rout...

As Greenknight points out the real slaughter is in the rout - cavalry are best as they can easily keep up with fleeing troops and casually slaughter them, other units can either run to keep up or fight stragglers - not both.

Several ancient military armies deliberately left inviting escape routes to encourage their enemies to flee realising that the inviting route weakened morale, other did the opposite to try and maximise the inevitable slaughter, although this was a dangerous tactic - even rats will fight savagely if cornered.

[X-Coeranys/WD (Greg)]

Several ancient military armies deliberately left inviting escape routes to encourage their enemies to flee realising that the inviting route weakened morale, other did the opposite to try and maximise the inevitable slaughter, although this was a dangerous tactic - even rats will fight savagely if cornered.
[/quote]

I recall in Sun Tzu's Art of War, he talks about "fatal ground", and how the wise general chooses the battle ground with (among many other things) these thoughts in mind.  Specifically, men fight hardest when there is no apparent escape route.  He even goes so far as to say if you want to force your men to fight their hardest, choose exactly such a battleground (with no escape).

Sun Tzu equally warns against fighting an enemy on fatal ground, unless absolutely essential, for the price of that battle will be extremely high.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

I think that the Mongols were noted for leaving the inviting escape routes - as they were almost all mounted bowmen the resulting slaughter must have been terrible when the enemy routed.