Subversion Spell

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

Does the target know who is the caster?

[X-DM Jon]

Well it's kinda hard not to see who's done it to you... The holding level will after all cross directly over. You might be able to hide the effect behind an espionage action, making it look like something else has caused the holding to loose a level.
 Conversion is definitely a realm spell suited for open conflict, it's not a very subversive spell...

Cheers Jon

[DM B]

He's asking about SUBVERSION - not CONVERSION.

Subversion is based upon Charm Person; and no, the target will not have any recollection of who cast the spell, or even think something weird has happened at all.

[X-DM Jon]

Ah... Damn! 

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

ok...thanks guys

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

well....

but if one lieutnant of mine makes a very strange move I could interrogate about his purposes. Then with an espionage action can I discover he was charmed by subversion realm spell?

[X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)]

Yeah - the target may rationalize, forget, or ignore his own weird actions, but the people around him can point them out and investigate them.  Magic tends to leave traces that mages and priests can detect if they go looking for it.

Or, of course, your lieutenant could just be playing a deep game with plans to betray you.  As is his sacred duty.

[X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)]

It also has to do with how we see the lieutenants themselves. Are they mindless automatons just following our orders and providing us with that one extra action or are they independent, loyal and trusted friends of the regent who make their own decisions as well. After all, when a prime minister names a minister, that minister is expected to make a lot of decisions in his sphere of influence without constantly running to the PM.

OOC we the players control the "bonus lt. action" but is it unimaginable that IC is the lt's judgment that guides his actions, within the general framework established by the regent of course, but still his own action that might sometimes deviate from the plan (especially for strong willed lts) which would thus make a "subversion" spell more explainable

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

If the caster is wise they will pick a 'dodgy' looey to subvert, or undertake a plausible action rather than something obviously out of character.  If that count you've been worried about seceding sends an army the wrong way then it would be easy to see it as proof of their guilt rather than subversion.

[X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)]

Or contesting someone your regent is known to dislike but which can lead to trouble (target being powerful, or inconvenient at the time etc) and the action itself can be blamed on the overzealousness of the lt. Basically, there are a lot of ways to get creative with this action, but if the player forces someone to do an action so contrary to their character, then the target regent should be entitled to suspect IC, like sending a paladin lt on a pillaging mission

[DM B]

Like so many other low-level spells it's quite utilitarian and very much overlooked...but let's just say its been used already in RoE II, and to good effect