Author Topic: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?  (Read 1961 times)

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Offline X-ETN/Maire Cwyllmie (Libor)

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Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« on: June 06, 2009, 07:27:50 pm »
OOC: Does the loss of priestly powers affect our collection of RPs from temples?

DM Jon note, good question. Let me just move this to the Q&A section for future reference.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 07:40:55 pm by DM Jon »

Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2009, 07:44:43 pm »
I believe the answer is no, since you're technically still a priest and RP collection has to do with the essence of dead gods inside you.
 Conceptually, a fallen paladin would not receive RP from his/her temple holdings, but instead receive RP as a fighter. I don't know if a similar rule goes for a priest that has fallen out of favor with the gods.

Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 07:45:49 pm »
It does affect your ability to cast realm spells. This is no longer possible, as you receive them from your god.
 Your lieutenants can still cast realm spells for you, obviously.

Offline DM B

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2009, 08:24:13 pm »
Good question!

Never happened before :)

I'll think on it a bit; 1/2 or no RP seems appropriate.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 12:14:18 am »
Oh no! 1/2 RP  :o

I'll whine like a bitch!

Seriously I think that a regent of a temple not able to cast realm spells and not collect RP (or just half RP) should not be allowed to rule said temple domain - make it a lands choice for a new regent or possible pick a suitable heir if such is allready present.

If the regent in question has failed to atone within 3 months (a turn) its game over!

On a side note; to me it seems as in Birth Right RAW it takes an excommunication from the temple domain to loose spell powers; perhaps to avoid above situation - what do I know ???
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 12:24:43 am by IHH/Pontiff Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) »
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Offline X-Mieres & SAS/AV (Mark)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 12:37:04 am »
I've got a question- and at the risk of drawing the attention of the DM (never wise) since the Governor doesn't actually cast spells is he suffering from any sign of Godly disapproval like the priests?
Every man has a price he will willingly accept, even for what he hoped never to sell. 

Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2009, 02:44:48 am »
I've got a question- and at the risk of drawing the attention of the DM (never wise) since the Governor doesn't actually cast spells is he suffering from any sign of Godly disapproval like the priests?

 To all men and women who have not walked the path of understanding the nature of the divine fully, the answer can only be: You don't know.

Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2009, 03:01:53 am »
Oh no! 1/2 RP  :o

I'll whine like a bitch!

Seriously I think that a regent of a temple not able to cast realm spells and not collect RP (or just half RP) should not be allowed to rule said temple domain - make it a lands choice for a new regent or possible pick a suitable heir if such is allready present.

Since this is somewhat the case for Medoere, allow me to disagree :P
The ways of the gods are not for humans to know... their actions not ours to decide. If a god wishes for a regent to redeem himself through actions, why would he reduce his stature or remove him from his position? The ½-RP (in my book) resembles rumours of the regents heinous actions reaching the rest of the faith, and some priests and cardinal choosing to go their own ways... they're not breaking out of the temple, but they'll tend to turn a deaffened ear to the regents wishes (who'd follow someone not loved by the gods after all?)

The deity may still believe the regent to have some destiny not yet fulfilled, only testing him/her. If said regent does not redeem him/herself, *then* they can start looking for another occupation.  :)
Besides... the fallen paladin who returns to the path of righteousness may have some added respect in certain groups (those who know how easy it is to stray, and how hard it is to get back) while loosing some respect in other circles (those who didn't trust the regent all that much in the first place).

Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2009, 03:05:48 am »
Oh no! 1/2 RP  :o

I'll whine like a bitch!

Seriously I think that a regent of a temple not able to cast realm spells and not collect RP (or just half RP) should not be allowed to rule said temple domain - make it a lands choice for a new regent or possible pick a suitable heir if such is allready present.

If the regent in question has failed to atone within 3 months (a turn) its game over!

On a side note; to me it seems as in Birth Right RAW it takes an excommunication from the temple domain to loose spell powers; perhaps to avoid above situation - what do I know ???

 In a situation where a temple ruler has fallen out of favor with the gods, a serious situation sets in. Therefore, conceptually, it is appropriate to ensure that said regent is either
a) compelled to remedy the situation as swiftly as humanly possible or
b) the temple itself gets rid of said regent and finds a new one.

 It's all really a question of how stable the temple in question is. It's obvious that a domain with a regent unable to receive the RP is in trouble, something that must be remedied with all haste!

 As for the excommunication part. If we're speaking pure rules, a God is able cast all spells available to it's priests - and more. Thus the God is quite able to excommunicate even it's favorite son.


 Other than that I can only point to Thorsten's post for added understanding.

Offline X-Mieres & SAS/AV (Mark)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2009, 03:28:14 am »
To all men and women who have not walked the path of understanding the nature of the divine fully, the answer can only be: You don't know.

Excellent - the Governor takes no sign as a sign that the Gods fully agree with his belief that what happened to the village was in no way his fault  :P
Every man has a price he will willingly accept, even for what he hoped never to sell. 

Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2009, 10:24:33 am »
Since this is somewhat the case for Medoere, allow me to disagree :P
The ways of the gods are not for humans to know... their actions not ours to decide. If a god wishes for a regent to redeem himself through actions, why would he reduce his stature or remove him from his position? The ½-RP (in my book) resembles rumours of the regents heinous actions reaching the rest of the faith, and some priests and cardinal choosing to go their own ways... they're not breaking out of the temple, but they'll tend to turn a deaffened ear to the regents wishes (who'd follow someone not loved by the gods after all?)

The deity may still believe the regent to have some destiny not yet fulfilled, only testing him/her. If said regent does not redeem him/herself, *then* they can start looking for another occupation.  :)
Besides... the fallen paladin who returns to the path of righteousness may have some added respect in certain groups (those who know how easy it is to stray, and how hard it is to get back) while loosing some respect in other circles (those who didn't trust the regent all that much in the first place).

But for the part where you compare Medoere I find you post rather enlightning; Medoere, is an alltogether different story and not comparable as I see it (at least not with the informations I have acess to).

The last part solves quite some difficult issues I'm trying to fit in - thanks a lot!
[This post certainly merrits my blessing of Thorsten :)]
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2009, 06:16:09 pm »
So, aside from meddling with a divine punishment and releasing aforementioned divinely accursed to prey upon the peoples of the Adurian coast what did they do to upset their god to warrant this sort of punishment?  :D

It seems to me that any member of the faith who simply ignores the problem that their predecessor caused is asking to be punished in turn so junking the PC probably won't work.

What I can see happening is a temporary shift in the temple structure while the 'former' regent goes to 1) repent, 2) undo the harm caused and 3) make amends - thereafter if the god welcomes back the regent then that is a sign of divine favour - to err is mortal, to forgive divine...

From a domain perspective having the #1 character out of play for a season or three is a biggie as follows:

1. Lose an action per season as the regent goes on their holy quest for redemption and presumably adventures each time.
2. Have a lower bloodline character / council in play so lose RP (Half per Bjorn).
3. Have less skilled characters / councils doing actions.
4. Lose ability to cast realm spells - so need to convince a neighbouring temple to cast the bless land required each season under the realm's diplomatic agreements.

1. Is a pain - those actions are in short supply, particularly for a priest - although they will probably gain an action through not casting bless the holy land so maybe it evens out
2. Losing RP is not a terrible of an issue frankly - 20 RP (probably > half) is nice but just turns 1 action a season from a slam dunk into an evens chance.
3. I have no idea if PC's skills impact domain play so don't know if this will have any mechanic effect.
4. This could cripple the temple domain - the temple will either have to find a second priest of L7+ able to cast realm spells (good luck) or convince a friendly neighbour to cast t for them (ohh, sounds expensive), or go cap in hand to the local lord and admit what has happened and lose massive amounts of face...

Since realm spells are cast as much by the faith as by an individual, maybe they should just be a bit harder while the regent is being judged?  That lets the domain 'keep it private' (at present only the temple regents know that they are affected, and may not realise that they are all being punished - although they can guess) and stay viable.

Otherwise, I'm happy to take vassalage from you guys and cast your spells for you - half your RP and GB plus ongoing flattery and fawning should do it while I'm in a good mood...

A question.  Does the half RP apply to law, guild, manor, etc holdings, or just to temple holdings?  For some it could make quite a difference...
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Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2009, 06:46:33 pm »
RP collection only concerns temple holdings.

Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2009, 08:37:14 pm »
For once it's not me who's in trouble, but I'll chime in anyway.  ;D

1. Priests' spells are granted by the respective deities. It's should be possible for said deity to stop granting spells if she wants to. This would involve the offending party acting so utterly against the tenets of the faith, AND for the deity to notice. Would the deity keep an eye on what the head of a temple does more than other priests? Perhaps.
2. RP collection is more a function of the domain than the deity. No matter how upset the deity is, RP should be rewarded if the domain stays loyal. If nobody but the deity knew, one could in theory lose ones powers and still get all the RP, but it would be hard to disguise in the long run. If the temple were disillusioned with the actions of the regent, and discord spreads within the domain, this is generally represented by a stability drop. Sometimes a domain may splinter, but that is a rare event, and a two or three point drop might be more appropriate.
3. On a character level actions that are against the characters alignment and faith is typically penalized by a bloodline loss (and associated one off RP loss).
4. If the overall population is disillusioned and angry at the temples, it might be that prosperity starts dropping where the temple is the majority holder or state faith.

That's at least how I see the dynamic between character and domain level play out in this case. The person can be affected by loosing spells and bloodline, but the domain level effect is typically stability dropping.
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Offline X-Points East

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Re: Loss of priestly powers, how does it affect my domain?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2009, 09:39:33 pm »

I believe the answer is no, since you're technically still a priest and RP collection has to do with the essence of dead gods inside you.
 Conceptually, a fallen paladin would not receive RP from his/her temple holdings, but instead receive RP as a fighter. I don't know if a similar rule goes for a priest that has fallen out of favor with the gods.

OoC:  A fallen paladin would generate RP from manors?