Author Topic: Bloodlines workbook  (Read 3547 times)

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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Bloodlines workbook
« on: March 31, 2009, 09:51:57 pm »
Having little prior experience I am not into debating this rule; I will just like to know how the mechanics works.

Pray tell how did it work when Assan transfered his bloodline to Rashid?
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2009, 11:35:12 pm »
I'm confused.  So if Robhan has kids they will have far lower bloodlines as his bloodline is (I presume) buffed from that he was born with given his families historic weak line - and there is effectively nothing Robhan can do about strengthening the family line as his full heir will still be way below him?  That moves bloodline from a family possession to a personal possession which is quite different thematically.

I'm struggling to see how the bloodlines don't degrade rapidly over the generations - what level do children start at?  2e average of current?  average of original?  random roll? The mechanic chosen has quite an effect on gameplay for dweebs like me.
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Offline X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)

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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2009, 11:51:28 pm »
Reading through Ad&d Birthright I can see that you get the same bonuses to BS in standard BR as we get here (Bjørns description) when commiting blood theft.

There is however added that if you slay the last living survivior of a bloodline by stabbing him through the heart you get to add 1/5th of the victims bloodline score to your own bloodline score. And you get to keep his regency. But that is hardly relevant and the rule is probably not in use here anyway.

Further more it seems that standart BR commoners can not become blooded by commiting bloodtheft.

Regarding heirs:
Why would you want to give your bloodline to an heir? The difrence of +4  BS is hardly going to make or break a realm. It is surely nothing that a good economy couldn't compensate for so why not leave your heir 50 extra gold bars and keep your blood abilities for yourself. And in a year he can have raised his BS as much as you could have for him.

Why is it that you dont grant your domain to your "Heir" with a contract stating that he must return it to you if things go poorly and then you stay as his advisor for a year or untill he get the hang of it? That surely would be the wise way to do it instead of giving +2 BS to him.

If your good you don't give him your bloodline because you can help him so much better by staying as a blooded advisor.
If your evil you might have other reasons, but still it is the smart thing to do.


What is the regents motivation for transfering his bloodline and not just his holdings now that it has been established that the powers he possess can not survive the transferance and all he can give is a slight advantage in the first year or so of his heirs rule?

Better yet.. If you are set on loosing your blood then transfere all your holdings exept for one to him and swear vasalage to him. Then reduce your bloodline each turn to grant him insane tribute of regency untill you are unblooded.

[Just rambeling here ^_^ ]
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Offline X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)

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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2009, 11:58:19 pm »
I'm confused.  So if Robhan has kids they will have far lower bloodlines as his bloodline is (I presume) buffed from that he was born with given his families historic weak line - and there is effectively nothing Robhan can do about strengthening the family line as his full heir will still be way below him?  That moves bloodline from a family possession to a personal possession which is quite different thematically.

I'm struggling to see how the bloodlines don't degrade rapidly over the generations - what level do children start at?  2e average of current?  average of original?  random roll? The mechanic chosen has quite an effect on gameplay for dweebs like me.


You add the BS of the mother and the father and divide with two. (Unless I am mistaken. And I might verry well be.)
If someone with a bloodline score of 30 has kids with someone with a bloodline score of 60 their kids will get a bloodline score of 45.

Removing the possibility of a clean transferance of blood makes it extreemly important to sleep with the right people!
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Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 12:01:13 am »
Regarding heirs:
Why would you want to give your bloodline to an heir? The difrence of +4  BS is hardly going to make or break a realm. It is surely nothing that a good economy couldn't compensate for so why not leave your heir 50 extra gold bars and keep your blood abilities for yourself. And in a year he can have raised his BS as much as you could have for him.

Because parents usually do irrational things for their children :) And any advantage, regardless of how minor it may seem, is better than no advantage at all ;)


Better yet.. If you are set on loosing your blood then transfere all your holdings exept for one to him and swear vasalage to him. Then reduce your bloodline each turn to grant him insane tribute of regency untill you are unblooded.

Again.. if only our characters had access to the BR rulebook  ;D

Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen

Offline X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)

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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2009, 12:43:27 am »
Regarding heirs:
Why would you want to give your bloodline to an heir? The difrence of +4  BS is hardly going to make or break a realm. It is surely nothing that a good economy couldn't compensate for so why not leave your heir 50 extra gold bars and keep your blood abilities for yourself. And in a year he can have raised his BS as much as you could have for him.

Because parents usually do irrational things for their children :) And any advantage, regardless of how minor it may seem, is better than no advantage at all ;)
Quite true, but even letting them running the realm is putting your people at a disadvantage.


Better yet.. If you are set on loosing your blood then transfere all your holdings exept for one to him and swear vasalage to him. Then reduce your bloodline each turn to grant him insane tribute of regency untill you are unblooded.

Again.. if only our characters had access to the BR rulebook  ;D


Not true, only if our characters observed the world they live in OR had access to the RoE II Rulebook. By the standard BR Ad&d rulebook it would be smarter to transfere your bloodline to your heir as they would get your whole bloodline score in place of their own.
And it makes more sense to me if it was that way.

Beside that. Rules in the BR(RoE II) rulebook are not ooc knowledge that our characters can not have or obtain IC. It is like the laws of physics is for our world! Laws of physics can be discovered and used to your advantage!
 

But I can see that it makes for interesting conflicts when a regent retires. You leave your realm weak when you transfere it to your child or other heir. So not only have your realm lost its lvl 13 ruler it has also lost 50% of its regency income and all of its enemies know that it is weak... For surely history must have shown that realms are best ovethrown right after an heir has assumed the throne.

In this setting I would find it just as likely if not more that a regent dies without transfering his bloodline than he transferes it and retires. The reason is that you leave your realm weak if you retire so you risk that your heir will loose it. So in an attempt to keep stability and prosperity in your realm you hold on to the power untill it is to late for the ceremony.

And dont worry anybody I am not actually going to try and do anything that I think would be against the spirit of the rules. EI I wont try to give my heir a greater bonus than Bjørn has said he wishes the heir to get. I just dont like that the only options you have is marriage with a high blooded or give your realm a disadvantage when you retire.
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Offline X-Tuornen/LF (Geir)

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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 01:12:00 am »
I just dont like that the only options you have is marriage with a high blooded or give your realm a disadvantage when you retire.

But was that not the historically correct presumption for medieval Europe?

Marry below your station and your family will suffer for it.
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Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 01:16:27 am »
There is one problem with not letting a regent transfer his full bloodline to his heir. How would Avan and Boeruine maintain their great bloodlines? Who can they marry of high enough blood to keep it at 60+
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 03:15:23 am by Roesone/ARR (Robert) »
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Offline X-Tuornen/LF (Geir)

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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 01:56:38 am »
There is one problem with now letting a regent transfer his full bloodline to his heir. How would Avan and Boeruine maintain their great bloodlines? Who can they marry of high enough blood to keep it at 60+
Ok,

So if you have 70 BS

You marry a nice babe with 40 BS

You kid gets a 55 BS

The kid gets loads of RP presents from friends and family, get to be baron at his 18 birthday,

Dadys advisors see to all that is needed and every odd season there is the celebration as another BP is added.

When dady is old the kid is at 15 more then he was born with, 70 BS….

40 BS is not all that uncommon is it?

A great house would make sure there is an ample supply of nice babes with 40 BS….

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Offline X-DM Jon

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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 02:02:28 am »
Regarding heirs:
Why would you want to give your bloodline to an heir? The difrence of +4  BS is hardly going to make or break a realm. It is surely nothing that a good economy couldn't compensate for so why not leave your heir 50 extra gold bars and keep your blood abilities for yourself. And in a year he can have raised his BS as much as you could have for him.

Because parents usually do irrational things for their children :) And any advantage, regardless of how minor it may seem, is better than no advantage at all ;)


Better yet.. If you are set on loosing your blood then transfere all your holdings exept for one to him and swear vasalage to him. Then reduce your bloodline each turn to grant him insane tribute of regency untill you are unblooded.

Again.. if only our characters had access to the BR rulebook  ;D

 Passing bloodlines on is just an additional bonus of creating an heir. The main point is to avoid civil war and instability that follows from having no heir. Transference of bloodline is actually quite rare.

Offline X-DM Jon

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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2009, 02:08:57 am »
There is one problem with now letting a regent transfer his full bloodline to his heir. How would Avan and Boeruine maintain their great bloodlines? Who can they marry of high enough blood to keep it at 60+
Ok,

So if you have 70 BS

You marry a nice babe with 40 BS

You kid gets a 55 BS

The kid gets loads of RP presents from friends and family, get to be baron at his 18 birthday,

Dadys advisors see to all that is needed and every odd season there is the celebration as another BP is added.

When dady is old the kid is at 15 more then he was born with, 70 BS….

40 BS is not all that uncommon is it?

A great house would make sure there is an ample supply of nice babes with 40 BS….

 If you take a quick look through the P&H you will see that there aren't that many families with a BS of 40 or more. Almost none of the families from the South Coast or the Eastern Marches have a BS of 40 or more. Slightly more from the Heartlands do, whereas the west is mostly unknown.

 BS of 40 or more is very rare.

 Avan is most likely spending his huge RP income to increase his BS regularly, he's been around for quite a while by now. So surviving = good BS.

Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 03:26:25 am »
There's also the bloodline bonuses that come from powerful rulership - regents who win great wars, expand their domain, and complete Agendas gain in bloodline.  The heights of blood power rarely last long within a family unless they continue to rule powerfully, which makes sense.

Offline X-LPA/Gaerred Khaiarén (Gray)

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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2009, 04:45:09 am »
There's also the bloodline bonuses that come from powerful rulership - regents who win great wars, expand their domain, and complete Agendas gain in bloodline.  The heights of blood power rarely last long within a family unless they continue to rule powerfully, which makes sense.

I don't think I have EVER heard of a player gaining a BS bonus, with the exception of completing Agenda (and consequently 'winning' the chapter).

Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Bloodlines workbook
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2009, 09:43:57 am »
To get BS bonus for completing agenda I say it must be a real difficult agenda; in my book these things should not come easy - a major agenda or if minor one of the tough ones.
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Offline DM B

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Re: Bloodlines workbook
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 10:06:01 am »
There is one problem with now letting a regent transfer his full bloodline to his heir. How would Avan and Boeruine maintain their great bloodlines? Who can they marry of high enough blood to keep it at 60+
Ok,

So if you have 70 BS

You marry a nice babe with 40 BS

You kid gets a 55 BS

The kid gets loads of RP presents from friends and family, get to be baron at his 18 birthday,

Dadys advisors see to all that is needed and every odd season there is the celebration as another BP is added.

When dady is old the kid is at 15 more then he was born with, 70 BS….

40 BS is not all that uncommon is it?

A great house would make sure there is an ample supply of nice babes with 40 BS….

RP 'presents' are not so common, but having your Heir rule something certainly is. In the days of the Empire, the Princes and Princesses, the Heir in particular, would rule a Principality or some such, ostensibly to gain experience, but acutally primarily to strengthen their bloodlines.
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