Author Topic: Hardiness & Advantage  (Read 4868 times)

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Offline X-Coeranys/WD (Greg)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2008, 09:35:13 pm »

Actually, I am not sure this is correct. Upon closer inspection between the actually Actions and the Action Table, Advantage (Law) is granted for Rule Actions (except Law holdings).

There is a lot of discrepancy between the table and the action descriptions actually.

I have noticed this also.  When reading the tables and comparing it against detailed descriptions, if there is a discrepancy, does one always trump the other (i.e. table>detail or detail>table?).

Thanks
William Deaulen
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Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2008, 10:26:52 pm »
Actually I've made a post stating that the table hasn't been updated, so I'm aware of the problem. Until fixed - the tables are WRONG, the action descriptions are RIGHT.
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Offline X-Coeranys/WD (Greg)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2008, 12:27:31 am »
Thanks Bjorn.   :)
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Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2009, 10:28:38 pm »
Example of play; rule holding difficulty:

<snip>

Hardiness [Law or same holding] - Follows the same rules as advantage...

The other major guild has a guild (2) in the province. That's not enough to qualify for Hardiness, so DDC stays at 15.

The latest RG draft does not reflect this, and rather uses the old system of adding the holding level to the DDC. The Advantage write-up does state the new (IMO unnecessary more complicated) mechanic. What's the correct version for this?
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Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 09:04:05 am »
This discrepancy has already been pointed out by Brandon and has been fixed, but not published.

The new rules applies equally to advantage AND hardiness.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2009, 10:18:48 am »
I cannot grasp this. I need somewhere to look for advantage/hardiness and what it is.

I have a feeling I am going to completely utterly f... up when making my new DO
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Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2009, 10:56:24 am »
Fucking up is an essential part of creating your first 4+ DO's. Don't worry about it, but learn it as you go.


Here's the simple version:
Advantage reduces your DDC.
Hardiness increases your DDC.

Each action description has a Modifier section. It defines whether advantage/hardiness is applicable. F.ex. Advantage is applicable towards rule holding actions, Hardiness isn't.

Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2009, 11:09:49 am »
Say you want to contest another temple holding; both advantage and hardiness applies.

Advantage: Say the province ruler controls half the law in that province and supports you. That is a big advantage for you; i.e. you get a 2 point reduction in DDC.

Hardiness: At the same time the temple ruler control the other half of the law. That is a big boost in his temple's hardiness against aggression; i.e. you get a 2 point increase in DDC.
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Offline X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2009, 04:04:30 pm »
Let's try to construct some examples - I need to clarify this as well. Can you please tell me if any of the examples below are wrong.

1.
I have a Province (4), in which I have two holdings: Law (4) and Manor (4). For an Agitate Action Advantage (Law) and Advantage (Manor) applies.
I get a +6 bonus to my Agitate Action. +4 from the law (or manor) holding and +2 for the other holding (because it's bonus equals my current).

2.
I have a Province (5), in which I have a Law (5) holding. Again I am Agitating. Additionally I have a Manor (3) holding and an ally is helping me with a Guild (3) holding.
I get a +6 bonus in total. +4 from the Law holding, and since the Guild holding and the Manor together equal or exceed the number of levels giving me +4 bonus, they give me +2 synergy bonus.

3.
I have a Province (5), again I am agitating. In that province I control Law (5) and Manor (3). Additionally, an ally is helping me with her Guild (2) holding.
I get a total +6 bonus for the action. +4 for the Law, +2 synergy from the Manor and Guild because the total levels of assisting holdings equal or exceeds the number of levels providing the +4 bonus.

4.
I have a province (6). I am Agitating. I have a Law (4), an Ally controls a Law (2) and a Guild (2), he is helping me with both holdings.
The total bonus is +4. +2 from the Law holding, +2 synergy from my ally because the total number of levels he is helping me with equals the levels providing my +2 bonus.

An important question:
Option a) To gain the +2 synergy bonus in addition to the highest holding giving me advantage  does the level from the other holdings need to equal or exceed the holding levels giving me advantage? This is how it is written in the regent guide pg. 75.
OR
Option b) Does the advantage I would gain from each holding need to equal the advantage I gain from the highest level holding to give me +2 synergy?

This becomes important if I eg. have a Law (5) providing me advantage and getting advantage from from a Guild (2) and a Manor (3) holding, all in a Province (5). Option a) would give me a total +6 bonus. Option b) would only give me +4, since the Guild holding is too small to provide advantage and the manor only provides +2 (less than my +4 bonus).

I have a feeling the intent might be option b, but personally I like option a better (slightly simpler).
Marya Tanar, The Sword Mage
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Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2009, 05:20:08 pm »
1. Correct.

2 & 3. Question is whether different holding types stack regarding synergy. Bjørn?

4. A holding don't count twice, no synergy. You do get the +4 total bonus due to all law control.


The answer is a) The regent guide is correct until the moment Bjørn states otherwise.

Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2009, 06:27:01 pm »
No. 2 is wrong. No extra synergy. Total is +4 for the Law

No. 3 is wrong. No extra synergy. Total is +4 for the Law

No. 4 is wrong. No extra synergy. Total is +2 for the Law
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Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2009, 06:29:23 pm »
Clearly this needs further clarification; I'll post the updated rules section when I'm back from Tromsø, with examples and comments. And then we can have a go at discussing things again.
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Offline X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2009, 07:10:41 pm »
Well, then the Regent Guide is currently incorrect on this issue. It specifically refers to levels. To quote pg. 75:
"If the sum of other holding levels providing advantage is at least equal to your highest-level holding providing advantage, you get a +2 synergy bonus to your advantage."

So, a short clarification from the examples.

Advantage from all of the levels in a province of a type of holding grant +4 (from you, you and your allies, or just from allies).
To gain the +2 synergy bonus you must get advantage from full control of another type of holding. Getting +2 advantage from two other different types of holding is not enough.

If you gain advantage from half or more of the available levels of a type of holding, you gain +2 bonus.
To get the +2 synergy bonus, you must gain advantage from half or more of the available levels of a type of holding.

Marya Tanar, The Sword Mage
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Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2009, 07:23:33 pm »
Well, then the Regent Guide is currently incorrect on this issue. It specifically refers to levels. To quote pg. 75:
"If the sum of other holding levels providing advantage is at least equal to your highest-level holding providing advantage, you get a +2 synergy bonus to your advantage."

So, a short clarification from the examples.

Advantage from all of the levels in a province of a type of holding grant +4 (from you, you and your allies, or just from allies).
To gain the +2 synergy bonus you must get advantage from full control of another type of holding. Getting +2 advantage from two other different types of holding is not enough.

If you gain advantage from half or more of the available levels of a type of holding, you gain +2 bonus.
To get the +2 synergy bonus, you must gain advantage from half or more of the available levels of a type of holding.

Well, sum of the same type of holding. That was the intention.
DM Bjørn

Offline X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2009, 08:01:04 pm »
Which is different from what is written ;)

Anyway, now we know, and knowing is half the battle.
Marya Tanar, The Sword Mage
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