Author Topic: Hardiness & Advantage  (Read 4869 times)

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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Hardiness & Advantage
« on: December 14, 2008, 04:10:42 pm »
These seem a little broken.

Hardiness adds the holding level.
Advantage at max offers a +4 bonus.

Additionally, many of the actions are strange in that you can either add difficulty or reduce difficulty, but rarely can a regent choose to do both.

For instance:

Rule Holding -- Regent can use holdings to INCREASE difficulty (Hardiness), but can use support to reduce difficulty.

Contest -- A regent can Reduce the difficulty (Advantage), but not increase the difficulty.

Conceptually, this appears to be significant change from RoE.  It basically means the relationship between state faith and state is a little different.  The state can't help protect any particular holding, save through increasing the difficulty of creating & ruling.  But in a contest war, the state would be unable to help defend against the hostile action. 

This is very different than before, I think...

« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 04:16:41 pm by Osoerde/William Osoer (Alan) »
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Offline DM B

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2008, 04:32:33 pm »
Hardiness should work exactly like Advantage;

Hardiness [Law, Temple, Manor, Guild, Trade, or Source]: These actions allow you to add to the DDC if you have a significant presence in the province.

Example: If the target of an espionage action you can use your law or guild holdings in the province to increase your opponent’s DDC.

Hardiness otherwise follows the same rules as Advantage does (use of diplomacy, synergy bonus etc.).
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2008, 04:33:37 pm »
These seem a little broken.

Hardiness adds the holding level.
Advantage at max offers a +4 bonus.


+6 if you count the synergy bonus.
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 04:34:34 pm »

Conceptually, this appears to be significant change from RoE.  It basically means the relationship between state faith and state is a little different.  The state can't help protect any particular holding, save through increasing the difficulty of creating & ruling.  But in a contest war, the state would be unable to help defend against the hostile action. 

This is very different than before, I think...

Conceptually as before; but with a flat +2/+4/+6 bonus instead of all those province lvls added together
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 04:41:20 pm »

Conceptually as before; but with a flat +2/+4/+6 bonus instead of all those province lvls added together

Ahh, so this is the easier to destory than build up, thing again.
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Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 04:45:33 pm »
With the adding of the province level to the difficulty, it is now easier to destroy in smaller provinces, and more difficult in the larger.
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2008, 05:07:38 pm »
With the adding of the province level to the difficulty, it is now easier to destroy in smaller provinces, and more difficult in the larger.

Intentional
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Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2008, 05:14:14 pm »
Makes sense. A lone constable office in a small village is much easier to smack around (read: chase away, maim, murder...) than a constabulary of a major city. I would assume that even though both might be law (1), that their magnitude, complexity and dispersion increases exponentially as the province increases.
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Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2008, 05:19:12 pm »
Conceptually as before; but with a flat +2/+4/+6 bonus instead of all those province lvls added together

Maybe I'm a bit slow but I'm having a hard time grasping the essence of it. Say in the contest action. If I contest TrB's  (sorry Bobby, you're my resident nemesis ;D): law (1) with my law (5), what's the target number?

Does my law (5) provide a +4 bonus (difference between the two holdings) against a DDC of 17 (prov 6, hold 1) or just a +2  bonud (half of max holding's advantage)?

And how does synergy factor in this?

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2008, 06:21:18 pm »
Example of play; rule holding difficulty:

Domain Difficulty: The DDC is 10 + province level + the new holding level.

Modifiers: Prosperity; Stability; Advantage [Law] – Does not apply to ruling law holdings; Advantage [Guild] – Applies to ruling trade holdings; Hardiness [Law or same holding; guild holdings also apply to ruling trade].

This looks rather complicated, but really it isn't:

Base DDC is pretty simple. Just add together the province level and the new holding level; to rule a holding to lvl 4 in a province 6 is 10 + 4 + = DDC 20.

Stability - Almost always applies to all domain actions, so no shocker there.

Prosperity - Pretty straightforward. A well-run province is easier to do business in; applies equally to all regents in this case.

With a prosperity of Loyal, you get a -1 reduction. With a prosperity of, lets say Content, you get another -2, for a total of -3. DDC now 17.

A little bit more complicated, but only a little

Advantage [Law] - If you're ruling any non-law holding the DDC is reduced by 2 if you've got half or more law. The reduction is 4 points if you've got all the law. Remember that a law (0) in a province (0) counts as 1/2 law.

Advantage [Guild] - Same as above, but only applicable to trade holdings. Note that if you've got both guild and law, you might qualify for the +2 synergy bonus.

So lets say your a guilder improving your guild from 3 to 4. Luckily you're the royal guild of the realm and get support from the law ruler, who has sufficient law to get you the 2 point decrease. DDC is now 15.

Hardiness [Law or same holding] - Follows the same rules as advantage...

The other major guild has a guild (2) in the province. That's not enough to qualify for Hardiness, so DDC stays at 15.

Now anyone who has a holding or is the province rule can start spending influence to further affect the DDC.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 06:23:57 pm by DM Bjørn »
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2008, 06:27:23 pm »
Conceptually as before; but with a flat +2/+4/+6 bonus instead of all those province lvls added together

Maybe I'm a bit slow but I'm having a hard time grasping the essence of it. Say in the contest action. If I contest TrB's  (sorry Bobby, you're my resident nemesis ;D): law (1) with my law (5), what's the target number?

Does my law (5) provide a +4 bonus (difference between the two holdings) against a DDC of 17 (prov 6, hold 1) or just a +2  bonud (half of max holding's advantage)?

And how does synergy factor in this?

Difficulty: DDC 10 + province level + target holding’s level.
When using contest as a realm action the DDC increases by 1 per target affected. The increase in DDC applies equally to all targets.

Modifiers: Prosperity; Stability; Advantage [Law or same holding; guild holdings also apply advantage against trade holdings].

So to contest TrB law in Caercas base DDC is 10 + 1 +6 = 17.

You get -1 for stability and -2 for prosperity. DDC 14

You get advantage since you have 1/2 or more law in Caercas. That's a -2 reduction, down to 12.
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2008, 08:59:51 pm »
The synergy text should read:

If you also have another holding of sufficient level to provide advantage, you get a +2 synergy bonus to your advantage.
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Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2008, 04:16:14 pm »
You get -1 for stability and -2 for prosperity. DDC 14

Does stability count in defense as well? In this particular exampe Bellam has stability 1 as well.
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2008, 04:25:25 pm »
Vs. contest it does, since the contest action is targeting the other domains holding, but not for rule for example, since it targets a vacant slot.
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Re: Hardiness & Advantage
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 06:46:21 pm »
Additionally, many of the actions are strange in that you can either add difficulty or reduce difficulty, but rarely can a regent choose to do both.

For instance:

Rule Holding -- Regent can use holdings to INCREASE difficulty (Hardiness), but can use support to reduce difficulty.

Contest -- A regent can Reduce the difficulty (Advantage), but not increase the difficulty.

Conceptually, this appears to be significant change from RoE.  It basically means the relationship between state faith and state is a little different.  The state can't help protect any particular holding, save through increasing the difficulty of creating & ruling.  But in a contest war, the state would be unable to help defend against the hostile action. 

This is very different than before, I think...

Actually, I am not sure this is correct. Upon closer inspection between the actually Actions and the Action Table, Advantage (Law) is granted for Rule Actions (except Law holdings).

There is a lot of discrepancy between the table and the action descriptions actually.