EOM Vacation

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

Good lord.  My sick days and vacation days put together only total up to 16, plus 7 holiday days (Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc).

Thats also sick albeit in another way 

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

yes Bobby....this one of the many things that contributes to make Italy a nation with many unemployeds.

Firms tend to have less workers than they need because italian workers are the most expensive and less productive of EU nations.

They are the most expensive not only because the many paid holydays due to them every year but also for the high contributions for puplic pension (in Italy a pulic pension is made by contributions both from workers and their firms).

Firing in italy is very difficult for private firm with 15 workers or more (it's common only if the firm goes bankrupt) and virtually impossibile for public workes (they're near 20% of all the italian workers)

So if one has the disgrace to lose his job he has in fact a double digrace: to lose his job and to not be able to find another one, expecially if he is more than 30 years old.

Tragedy is that even if they're are the most expensive in EU-area they receive a less net wage than German or French workers.

I.E.: I lead a group of 11 people. They get a net wage of near € 15.000 per year but each of them cost almost the double to the firm. My wage is higher but not SO higher. To compare how much is the wage think that in the city of Milan a single room in a house (not in centre) divided with 2-3 other persons could cost 600-700 per month (of course with no regular contract so the renter easily gains € 2000 per month without paying anything in taxes). For this reason I live afar from Milan.

Just one of the many oddities of my country. 

As an humourist used to say: "Italy has its feet in Africa and a single toe in Europe" 

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

I believe the single most important factor is the difficulty in getting rid og people no longer needed for various reasons. A standard of 3 months can make a big difference even if high salary/vacation rate.

Just my 2 cents

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

You've centered the point Kasper.

Then Italian firms do a lot of tricks to avoid this kind of way:

1)They usually employ people on short - term based contracts (from 1 to 6 months), with chances to renewals. When things go bad simply they don't renew them and people stay at home (just as it's happening in my firm)

2) They assign some branches of their activities (not considered to be part of their core business) to other firms, tied by a contract of service. The other firms usually employ people in #1 manner. When the contract is out and things go bad the secondary firm has no more customers and go bankrupt

3) They divide the main firm in smaller ones (belonging to the same group), each of them with less than 15 workers, so they can fire whenever they want. or some of them must be sold to others or be tied only by a contract of service (like #2)

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Someone once did a survey of tax take and holiday and concluded that in Europe high taxes meant that employees asked for more holiday instead of more pay compared to the US - the UK will be 51.5% from next year at the top (up from 41%) and already we have people serious considering down-sizing trading £ for days.

I get 25 days + public holidays.  I generally use 5-10 days holiday on training courses, pro bono work, etc leaving me a two week vacation, xmas, and a few days here and there.  I normally feel guilty about the amount of holiday I get, it seems wasteful somehow.  But the blackberry is rapidly removing the distinction between work and holiday anyway so maybe technology will close the gap.

[X-EOM/SS (Marco)]

In the next two weeks I'll be in Rome...

this time not for tourism but for work..

I might be able to check forum and email box in the evening but seldom.