Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary

[X-ETN/Maire Cwyllmie (Libor)]

The question for temples (at least for ETN) is not really whether to bless or not, rather where to bless. To withhold the gifts and miracles of the respective deity from the believers would feel somewhat inappropriate and should be self-destructive in a long run. After all, who would worship a deity that doesn't manifest itself, when there are others that do?

On the other hand, when temples get paid for bless in gold, it covers only part of their expenses. They still expend actions and RPs for it. So when landed regents pay for bless, it is not really for the work done. Rather it is for privilege that their lands are the ones chosen by the god/goddess

[X-DM Jon]

The question for temples (at least for ETN) is not really whether to bless or not, rather where to bless. To withhold the gifts and miracles of the respective deity from the believers would feel somewhat inappropriate and should be self-destructive in a long run. After all, who would worship a deity that doesn't manifest itself, when there are others that do?

On the other hand, when temples get paid for bless in gold, it covers only part of their expenses. They still expend actions and RPs for it. So when landed regents pay for bless, it is not really for the work done. Rather it is for privilege that their lands are the ones chosen by the god/goddess

 I believe we have a winner 

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

The question for temples (at least for ETN) is not really whether to bless or not, rather where to bless. To withhold the gifts and miracles of the respective deity from the believers would feel somewhat inappropriate and should be self-destructive in a long run. After all, who would worship a deity that doesn't manifest itself, when there are others that do?

On the other hand, when temples get paid for bless in gold, it covers only part of their expenses. They still expend actions and RPs for it. So when landed regents pay for bless, it is not really for the work done. Rather it is for privilege that their lands are the ones chosen by the god/goddess

 I believe we have a winner 

If all temples in a given nation work for money, then the ruler will use the one he has to pay the least. - Unless he is dedicated to one of them in particular for other reasons.

However, when the favored temple turns out to be the expensive one, the contradicting one, the treacherous one, then the ruler must chose the more amiable temple or he is failing to serve his nations interests.

[X-Avanil/Aubrae Avan (Thorsten)]

Ouch. That *is* a paladin of reason speaking. Since most of us are at least paying lip-service to the gods (and some more than just that), I think most have "other reasons".

But going by that same line of reasoning, that same person might consider whether he, in fact, is serving in the best interest of the nation. Abdication is always a possibility. And apparently the LPA had the blessing of Avanlae, or they wouldn't have been able to cast that excom-spell in the first place. Just saying

[X-WIT/Toreas Kharnmoin (Rune)]

If all temples in a given nation work for money, then the ruler will use the one he has to pay the least. - Unless he is dedicated to one of them in particular for other reasons.

If a regent has that point of view, I do believe he'd be in for a fun surprise - especially if the DM is watching. There is usually a reason why a domain has a state faith, or if that's not the case, there is still usually a temple with longer/stronger traditions tied to the domain than others.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Abdicating to a treasonous temple? - I think not.

Also, since this is an OOC thread, I am fairly certain you are colored by the version the LPA has presented or are lacking in insight.

If you want to know what is going on, ask IC. 

Or check out the IC thread, pretty sure some interesting stuff is going to appear sooner or later.

[X-WIT/Toreas Kharnmoin (Rune)]

Have you been following the game at all? It seems temples have a pretty high churn rate around Anuire. Elinie is one notable exception.

Yes I have, from turn 1 actually. The dispute between regent and temple because of blessings has been there from the start, and is likely to stay there until RoE ends. I'm just saying that a regent "shopping" for the cheapest temple is asking for trouble. What I'm not saying is that the LPA is all reasonable here, while you are not - I probably do not even know half of what's been going on between you.

Edit: Don't mistake my posts as taking sides here. I just felt like giving my 5 cents in an ooc-thead 

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Well ok then.

[X-Avanil/Aubrae Avan (Thorsten)]

Abdicating to a treasonous temple? - I think not.

I'd be rather surprised if Rashid did, to be honest. And I can assure you it's not something Aubrae would do either - I was just trying to follow the "what's best for my people" approach to the letter.   
I'm just happy this isn't in my neck of the woods, and await the jury (or the winner) to inform us afterwards, what took place.

[X-DM Jon]

Have you been following the game at all? It seems temples have a pretty high churn rate around Anuire. Elinie is one notable exception.

Yes I have, from turn 1 actually. The dispute between regent and temple because of blessings has been there from the start, and is likely to stay there until RoE ends. I'm just saying that a regent "shopping" for the cheapest temple is asking for trouble. What I'm not saying is that the LPA is all reasonable here, while you are not - I probably do not even know half of what's been going on between you.

Edit: Don't mistake my posts as taking sides here. I just felt like giving my 5 cents in an ooc-thead 

Whaat? The temple of reason, unreasonable? Impossible! 

 Yeah, it's been there from the start... I translated some of the first turns from Norwegian to english. Far as I remember the waves went pretty high back then. And when I took on the OIT around turn 38, I was blessed with having a temple and a ruler that had already fought that battle and come out on each other's side against the damn treacherous nobles. So it was just a question of holding on to that status quo from there on in.

[X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)]

My 5 cents:

The thought of paying GB for blessings have never crossed my mind. I have thought in lines: "How can I reduce the cost for my state faith to bless my province in the long run." and "how can I help my state faith and thus my patron Deity gain the praise that they/he deserves." and because of *issues*(tm): "How can I give ample praise to my god when his temple commits treason against me"
I would most definately pay for their help, but in holding support, protecting their holdings and lending aid if they needed. For I would think the active support of my deities followers would be more important to them than a few GB easily parted with.... But perhaps I put greater value on an ally than others because I have more gold than most?

[X-DM Jon]

My 5 cents:

The thought of paying GB for blessings have never crossed my mind. I have thought in lines: "How can I reduce the cost for my state faith to bless my province in the long run." and "how can I help my state faith and thus my patron Deity gain the praise that they/he deserves." and because of *issues*(tm): "How can I give ample praise to my god when his temple commits treason against me"
I would most definately pay for their help, but in holding support, protecting their holdings and lending aid if they needed. For I would think the active support of my deities followers would be more important to them than a few GB easily parted with.... But perhaps I put greater value on an ally than others because I have more gold than most?

You certainly do have the gold

 A lot of temples don't, which is why they attempt to acquire other things, like GB support, holdings of other types, etc.
The LPA f.ex. blessing 3 provinces is currently spending between a third and a quarter of their income after expenses doing so.
 For some it's necessary, for other's it's merely a fraction...

[X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)]

You certainly do have the gold

 A lot of temples don't, which is why they attempt to acquire other things, like GB support, holdings of other types, etc.
The LPA f.ex. blessing 3 provinces is currently spending between a third and a quarter of their income after expenses doing so.
 For some it's necessary, for other's it's merely a fraction...

In that situation there would be nothing wrong with paying them for their service...
But if I were to give GB I wanted them to be used towards constructive ends for my realm and in a way that shows my subjects that I am generous both to them and to the gods, so the construction of Chappels in those 3 provinces would be something I could donate to.
Giving the temple support and denying it to other temples in matters of Rule/create/(contest) would also be doable.
Using my troops to protect their holdings within my borders would be a must.

But to pay GB for the blessings each turn based on a treaty?
How would that show my gods greatness and prove that I am more devout than a peasant making offerings in the appropreate seasons to his god of farming?.........

Where would my statue be?

Where would my gods statue be?     

I have divine blood. I have obligations to be better than the commoners, and by the gods I will be able to prove it and show it for all my subjects to see!


GOD I LOVE TO RANT ^_^

[edit to add brackets]

[X-DM Jon]

You certainly do have the gold

 A lot of temples don't, which is why they attempt to acquire other things, like GB support, holdings of other types, etc.
The LPA f.ex. blessing 3 provinces is currently spending between a third and a quarter of their income after expenses doing so.
 For some it's necessary, for other's it's merely a fraction...

In that situation there would be nothing wrong with paying them for their service...
But if I were to give GB I wanted them to be used towards constructive ends for my realm and in a way that shows my subjects that I am generous both to them and to the gods, so the construction of Chappels in those 3 provinces would be something I could donate to.
Giving the temple support and denying it to other temples in matters of Rule/create/(contest) would also be doable.
Using my troops to protect their holdings within my borders would be a must.

But to pay GB for the blessings each turn based on a treaty?
How would that show my gods greatness and prove that I am more devout than a peasant making offerings in the appropreate seasons to his god of farming?.........

Where would my statue be?

Where would my gods statue be?     

I have divine blood. I have obligations to be better than the commoners, and by the gods I will be able to prove it and show it for all my subjects to see!


GOD I LOVE TO RANT ^_^

[edit to add brackets]

Well, the OoC is for ranting 

 Now as for money I can see you're one of the realms not paying much... Maybe that will change when the Pontiff comes looking for the gold he's no longer getting from the Conclave.
Bjørn made a slip the other day, signed for the Pontiff as Wallac I - Wallac the first 
He'll try and claim that it was supposed to mean Isilviere, but I think we all know where the good Pontiff is headed eh

(swoosh, off to create paranoia elsewhere!)

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Given the chaos, etc in Elinie I think that all we can say for sure is that everyone is going to be losing    The LPA just wound Robhan up to the point that they turned him from reluctant neutral to open enemy and things can only get ugly now. 


Robhan historically lobbed Elinie a bless or two a season to stay in their good graces, amusing as it was sounds I was really worried about the LPA getting Rashid to chuck me out of the realm at the start - not to mention that Rashid seemed devout enough to do it out of love for Avani anyway - blessing seemed a cheap way of staying in his good graces, and since I have a couple of reasonable size holdings it didn't really cost much.  Robhan's made a few hints on payment since, but Elinie's so poor right now that he can't really put any pressure on.

I'd expect Viktor to crunch the numbers in Mhoried and laugh insanely if I suggested being paid for some of the provinces - he's ignored our treaty point on payment since ascending...

Personally my view is that everybody benefits from BTHL, so everyone should contribute (look see! flying piggies!  hear the innocent halfwit speak and laugh!).  The question is really balance, I'd expect the nobles (not just the ruler) and the guilds to cover a good part of the cost, maybe all of the marginal cost in a large province, but wouldn't expect any single regent to go beyond half unless they are really dominant - at which point you can't really make them do anything.  A temple expecting the ruler to pay more than the ruler benefits is on a hiding to nothing though in my view.

On the numbers btw, LPA could bless 3 provinces and almost break-even once the place is up and running again, they could easily have tapped the Aegis until then but they weren't interested enough in Robhan's arguments to take up his comments on that side.  Not entirely surprising as Robhan can be insufferably patronising with the LPA and was furious with them for betraying him and ruining the realm.