To resurrect or not resurrect that is the question

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

More like Dead, Even.

D-E-A-D. Dead.

I prefer to remain optimistic. It's just the gloom of the Shadow world bringing despair to your mind. A trick of the low light making his skin look sallow...
Drago will rise again!

To be fair, being dead and rising again are not neccesarily mutually exclusive.

Perhaps Drago is simply not dead which would be just fine. Hey even Archbishop Bellamie might not be dead, but regardless their dead (wether false rumour or not) make me think along how to deal with the question to resurrect or not.

I’ve got the impression that to you only very very seldom resurrect anyone as it is considered very bad to force the dead person to leave their paradise for once more to assume life as a mortal. Perhaps some great unfinished task or something similar?

Note that upon dead a person loose their divine bloodline and it wont come back just because you get to be resurrected (In the case of William Osoer he got another bloodline not of his family from being the lands choice (so he clearly had a special role yet to play be it for good or not)

How do you guys perceive it? (And No this is not to discuss William Osoer – if you feel like doing that please do it in another thread. It was just the only example I knew of).

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

The whole "But he is in paradise" is moot. When you are ressurrected your memory of paradise is wiped, so no harm done.

In Birthright though, the Real reason is matters of inheritance. Its very awkward to have the former regent running around, and for a scion to wake up with out Blood it might be a traumatic shock.

It might make them so desperate for a new bloodline that they go hunting for one...

For an unblooded character, and if the power was within reach, I don't see any foul in bringing them back if major politics are not involved.

For the above situation, a scion who may also have great estates, its a much more loaded political question more than a moral one.

[X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)]

I think most faithful people would consider a massive no-no without direct Divine say so. Even if you do not recall heaven, you were still there, within the bosum of the most sacred and then you are pulled back to the mortal world.

The complications politically and economically would also mean that it would have to be done incredibly carefully if ever.

Feels like an almost always "No, No, NO!"

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

I read both replies with great interest and think both of you have valid points. For the matter of broadening the discousion I will refrain from answering any of them just yet in the hope other replies will come forth (wether its someone sharing one or more of the points allready expressed in the three above posts or new ones all together)

 

[X-MOC/Leman States (Even)]

I think most faithful people would consider a amassive no-no without direct Divine say so. Even if you do not recall heaven you were still there, within the bosum of the most sacred and then you are pulled back to the mortal world.

To look at it purposely simplistic, and to offer an argument the other way; wouldn't the resurrection itself be considered a miracle and sign of 'divine approval'?!?

[X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)]

I think most faithful people would consider a amassive no-no without direct Divine say so. Even if you do not recall heaven you were still there, within the bosum of the most sacred and then you are pulled back to the mortal world.

To look at it purposely simplistic, and to offer an argument the other way; wouldn't the resurrection itself be considered a miracle and sign of 'divine approval'?!?

It depends. In traditional AD&D then no as the raise dead/ress spells were practically standard fare, much to many RP'ers annoyance. In RoE? Then I would agree it is completely different, but in that case the caster should not expect it to work most of the time

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

I think most faithful people would consider a amassive no-no without direct Divine say so. Even if you do not recall heaven you were still there, within the bosum of the most sacred and then you are pulled back to the mortal world.

To look at it purposely simplistic, and to offer an argument the other way; wouldn't the resurrection itself be considered a miracle and sign of 'divine approval'?!?

Indeed! - If they do not approve, the soul does not return. In fact, the soul always knows the alignment of the person trying to bring it back. It can refuse. (Pretty sure I read that somewhere)

[X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)]

While I in no way claim this is true for RoE (read: I don't know), the following is directly quoted from the AD&D Book of Priestcraft:

"Extremely powerful magic exists that is capable of bringing characters back from the dead. The number of priests who are able to cast raise dead or ressuraction spells is pretty limited in most campaigns - throughout Cerelia, only 9th-level (or more powerful) priests of the deities Nesirie, Ruornil, Sera, and Kriesha have access to these spells...."

The passage continues, but I believe the important part is said here. Certain spells are simply outside the scope of the followers of particular deities. If you will recall, it was also a priestess of Nesirie who reattached Duke Ghieste's arm when the Green Knight chopped it off.

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

A regent of IHH resurrected William Osoer prior to RoE II so its not just priests of the deities Nesirie, Ruornil, Sera, and Kriesha have access to these spells Thorsten.

Unless ofcause Bjørn say so 

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

While strictly a regent of IHH may not have to be a priest of Haelyn its a fairly safe bet, so Haelynites should be able to bring people back if need be.

I'd say that resurrection is rare because:

1. Leaving heaven - if gods invites someone in, it is very rude to drag them back out again
2. Who says you forget heaven anyway?  Frankly leaving people dead lets the priests perpetuate all the cherished rubbish about heaven that they think is important, why contaminate faith with reason and risk schism?
3. Inheritance, rival claims to old property/spouses, etc, etc as Matt said, being dead is serious business - and coming back causes all sorts of family rows.
4. The impact on life being sacred - if dying is temporary why is murder worse than assault?
5. Tearing holes in the veil to bring a spirit back from the dead can have unfortunate side effects in BR, similarly doing so casually invites demons to encourage those unprepared to attempt the feat risking unleashing demons into the world.
6. Losing the bloodline - I see the bloodline as being a fragment of the soul, the source of creativity, inspiration, etc, etc - if that spark is lost what has truly returned?  Have you brought back a man or merely the ghost of one gone?
7. Dying is partly the DMs way of saying that you've been dim, why encourage Bjorn to drop a thousand tons of masonry on people to get the point across that minion X is gone?  It will only increase the casualty rate!

Etc, etc.

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

From my perspective in RoE, I always consider Raise Dead to be akin to giving someone CPR.  This isn't like the person has been dead for hours, or days, not weeks, but rather it is an emergency measure to resuscitate someone, within a very limited window of time.  I generally consider this person to NOT loss their BL, mostly because BL is not just tied to life, but to soul/spirit as well. If the person returns before the soul/spirit can be travel to the afterlife, then no harm done.

Resurrection is a different beast altogether.

[X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)]

A regent of IHH resurrected William Osoer prior to RoE II so its not just priests of the deities Nesirie, Ruornil, Sera, and Kriesha have access to these spells Thorsten.

Unless ofcause Bjørn say so 

Allow me to point at the first line of my last post, Kasper.

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

From my perspective in RoE, I always consider Raise Dead to be akin to giving someone CPR.  This isn't like the person has been dead for hours, or days, not weeks, but rather it is an emergency measure to resuscitate someone, within a very limited window of time.  I generally consider this person to NOT loss their BL, mostly because BL is not just tied to life, but to soul/spirit as well. If the person returns before the soul/spirit can be travel to the afterlife, then no harm done.

Resurrection is a different beast altogether.

I concur with Alan though I dont know how Bjørn handles it - likely similar though I can not say why I think so.

[X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)]

The Spell Compendium has a spell called Resuscitate that I think is much more of what Raise Dead is like in RoE.

[X-Alamie/CA (Marco)]

just my two coins...

Since RoE II is a game with, generally, low-level characters, I think it would be very hard to have a character resurrected since they'll be very few priests able to cast such powerful spell.

IIRC RoE II is much more a game of dynasties and bloodlines, not of characters so I shouldn't be concerned a lot about a regent's death, as long as he has already chosen an heir.

but of course Bjorn, as a DM, has the last word..