Author Topic: Narrative vs Numbers - the constant conflict in RPGs  (Read 4095 times)

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Offline X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt)

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Narrative vs Numbers - the constant conflict in RPGs
« on: March 16, 2012, 01:38:32 PM »
The history of Role-playing games is well documented. The growth of the hobby out of its origins in wargaming and the wish to play at a character level, rather than skirmish or full scale battle level, the engagement with the individual mind and the move of focus of games over time from pure combat systemology to supporting a wide range of other types of game. (There can be another post here about masculine vs feminine gaming styles/theories and how they can change games but that is for another day)

However what this organic development has done is leave a fundamental conflict at the heart of the game we play, that is to say the subject of this post "Narrative vs Numbers".

The numbers.
In RoE this is even more obvious then most pen and paper games. We fill out a DO that is full of numbers and formulas and macros. We scour over the P&H to see every move and shift in the sheet - it is said that one can learn more there than any espionage action one might consider from careful study of the P&H ;) But the numbers are dry, while they provide the framework through which we model the world they do not suggest the nuance and detail that make the game fun to play. They do not provide the roleplay.

The narrative.
Ah... the beauty of a well crafted story. But in RPgs it is different. The story is not a novel derived from a single person, it is a collaborative story telling experience, wehre more threads and characters and plots are woven together than any one soul might create for us to enjoy. The blend of all of those who take part working together, against, with and around each other that creates the richest of tapestries.

The problem occurs when players try to let the numbers rule the story. The numbers are important, yes, but ultimately you may as well be playing monopoly or solitaire if all you care about is the sheets and number crunching to provide you the greatest edge. RPG's require the narrative drive of individual characters, agendas and interactions to create the game that fires the utter passion for the hobby in so many roleplayers. We get to tell our own stories, not other peoples - how cool is that?

The Agenda in RoE.
It is easy to think of the agenda's you are given as KPI targets, that they are a number or a gate that you have to get past in order to win. Some agendas can be completed just be crunching numbers, it is true, but where have you played the game if that is all you do? How have you added to the story we all tell? How have you made the game more fun to run for the DM?

As an example, anecdata is never evidence but it can help explain a point. There is one of my objectives that I started in a very reasonable position on. If I had just number crunched as GH/HOT it could have rendered a very good return in the agenda stakes. But I have not. I have surrendered some aspects of it entirely because the narrative story, the character development and the better story was elsewhere and so instead Ghorien has taken a much more difficult path; despite the cost in numbers. But it means when we all kick back and tell our stories, when we get to glimpse behind some characters a bit more (which can often happen in play) it will render a better and more satisfying story for all those who have been involved. I hope. :)
His Grace Ghorien Hiriele,
Duke of Ghieste,
Grand-Maester of the Highland/Overland Traders,
Viscount of Whyrthe.
Down Right Evil Bastard!

Offline X-Sea Witch/Aneira (John)

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Re: Narrative vs Numbers - the constant conflict in RPGs
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2012, 03:07:55 AM »
I've had an interesting experience, coming to the Sea Witch quite late (I've just submitted my 4th DO) and immediately after she had inherited from Hermedhie.

Playing a wizard regent is much simpler than playing a landed regent or temple, so I have not had to come to grips with as much of the RoE ruleset and numbers as most other players.  This was a deliberate choice on my part, given how busy RL was at the time I joined and how much time I thought I had to come to grip with the rules of the game.

Equally, Bjorn had not developed agendas for my new Sea Witch and I essentially had free rein to make up my own.  My major agenda was fairly easy to set, being a major theme from the later part of Hermedhie's life.  I've had a couple goes at setting minor agendas, but none of them have really fit the character and so have fallen by the wayside.  Instead, I've had a lot of fun roleplaying a young wizard coming to grips with being both a realm wizard and the Sea Witch (in this case, it's not one and the same thing).  So for me, to date, RoE has been very much a roleplaying experience guided and informed by my major agenda, and equally by my character's background.

So I agree with you, Matt.  The narrative story of the game and the ongoing character development have been what has set this game apart for me.  In that, I'd like to thank Bjorn for RPing my Boeruine relatives early on, Matt and Rune for helping me bring out different aspects of Aneira's character I might not have done otherwise, and especially Thorsten, for the chats between Aneira and Aubrae which have really allowed me to flesh my little witch out and to tell her story.
Aneira Taren, Sea Witch of the South Coast.

Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Narrative vs Numbers - the constant conflict in RPGs
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 12:49:11 PM »
I've played in games where season 1-2 was a slash 'n' burn of any non-landed holding that wasn't surrendered to the ruler, they weren't memorable.

I use the domain agenda's as 'long term goals' not as a 'to do' list, partly because most would take decades, mainly because they are useful to indicate what the domain does / doesn't want from its regent and so what the regent should/shouldn't be casual about doing.

I aim to tell an interesting shared story - a visitor now or in later years should be able to enjoy reading the forum's etc or I haven't done a good job, if I amuse or intrigue from time to time then all the better.

Frankly if it was just about the numbers I'd play risk or a computer game, it's role-playing not roll-playing that I'm after.
Robhan Khaiarén
High Marshal of Haelyn's Aegis
Work hard, walk with honour, be justly rewarded