Author Topic: Diplomacy tips  (Read 5901 times)

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Offline DM B

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Diplomacy tips
« on: January 13, 2009, 08:29:27 AM »
Several of you have already engaged in monstrously lengthy and complex diplomacy, and I find myself failing to understand the burning need to have ever single little detail hammered out in turn 1. it can only end badly - failed actions or would-be treaty partner antagonized.

To maximize your diplomacy gains, here are some tips:

- focus on those domain already listed as having good relations with you; actions will be all that much easier
- keep it relatively simple to begin with; you can expand upon the treaty on a later turn (granted, this uses more actions, but the cost of diplomacy is low anyway)
- don't forget that its a case of give and take; don't assume that your treaty partner has the same perceptions or interests that you do
- don't overdo the back and forth part - make an offer, discuss it a bit, and perhaps amend the treaty; avoid 100.000 mails back and forth containing minor adjustments to pointless little things (it just confuses everyone)

The way things are going ATM are 'not well' - massive multi-domain diplomacy actions leading just about nowhere and/or endless quarrels over minor issues in what could otherwise have been good treaties.
DM Bjørn

Offline X-Endier & KoH/GdN (Joe)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 01:57:58 PM »
I'm glad its not just my diplomacy that felt monstrously long.
Guy de Nichaleir, Grand-Maester of the Knights of Haelyn, Count of Endier, the Red Knight

Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 02:14:37 PM »
I'm glad its not just my diplomacy that felt monstrously long.

...

I choose not to comment.

(I spend too much time in here... but I agree that diplomacy can be a bother. It helps beeing able to pass everything on to your Liege Lord!  ;D)

Offline X-MOC/Leman States (Even)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 02:22:05 PM »
And don't forget that with treaties that become too outlandish or complex there is the chance of the DDC becoming high enough for the action to fail, and all our efforts will be for naught.

And yes Thorsten, sometimes it is disturbing to see that little clock ticking at the top of the forum indicating how big a part of my life I've spent here.
"We are RuinsofEmpire now, and when we act, we create our own reality."

Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 03:49:33 PM »
Though in case you insist making those outrageous outlandish treaties remember that RP/GB can be used to gain enough advantages on your roll to make it even so.
His Holiness Wallac Isilviere, Pontiff of All Anuire, High Prefect of the Impregnable Heart of Haelyn

Offline DM B

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 05:49:12 PM »
Though in case you insist making those outrageous outlandish treaties remember that RP/GB can be used to gain enough advantages on your roll to make it even so.

If your lucky enough to reach something akin to an IC agreement before the turn is over - otherwise the DDC will be too high.
DM Bjørn

Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 09:36:19 PM »
No plan survives contact with the enemy, no treaty survives real life.   Agree core concepts, a set of broad principles, vary as required - works in all areas.

So basically Bjorn, you are saying don't start arguing the niceties of your funeral when planning your wedding?

I carefully did the treaty I wanted as even-handedly as possible, and then built in two points at the end to give the Mhor something to exclude so that we both felt there had been give and take in the deal...
Robhan Khaiarén
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Work hard, walk with honour, be justly rewarded

Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 04:19:15 AM »
To use an example - Alan and I negotiated a new treaty this season.  We bounced the treaty back and forth half a dozen times before we were both satisfied.  We tried to make it clear what our problems were when we got stuck (had to clear up at least one outright misunderstanding over AIM), and when we got down to little details of variations in tribute, we marked down what we each wanted and left it to the dice to decide who got their wish.  Was that what you guys want from Diplomacy?  Should we have done fewer exchanges and left it more open-ended?  I guess my question is, how much back-and-forth is "trying to reach an understanding" and how much is too much?

Offline DM B

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 05:33:20 AM »
To use an example - Alan and I negotiated a new treaty this season.  We bounced the treaty back and forth half a dozen times before we were both satisfied.  We tried to make it clear what our problems were when we got stuck (had to clear up at least one outright misunderstanding over AIM), and when we got down to little details of variations in tribute, we marked down what we each wanted and left it to the dice to decide who got their wish.  Was that what you guys want from Diplomacy?  Should we have done fewer exchanges and left it more open-ended?  I guess my question is, how much back-and-forth is "trying to reach an understanding" and how much is too much?

Its too much when you get bogged down - endless IC posts without any progress; and then the turn ends.
DM Bjørn

Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 10:36:33 AM »
Aye, while I enjoy IC posting as much as the next man (the next man beeing another BR-roleplayer), in the end, when you feel like getting bogged down, or that things just arent moving along, I tend to go to OoC-IC mode.

That is the mode, where things happen quicker, and you can still have some fun out of it, without having long conversations full of fancy words that basically means nothing (ie. almost anything I say).
Basically it goes along the line of:
"OoC:
Kaven suggests that the army set up camp at the base of the hill out of sight, and will personally scout the surroundings.
Guards should be posted at various points, and the men propperly fed before the battle in the morning. Kaven will spend some time talking to the soldiers, complimenting their hard work and determination in the face of the enemy."

It's shorter, and although not as fun as writing the long speech, gives a general idea of what the character says and does. It's a great way of wrapping up stuff for an adventure too, instead of nitpicking about the details, trying hard to come up with other words for "level", "prepare spells" and "let's open up a can of whoopass on those S.O.B.'s". :P

- Thorsten

Offline X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 11:25:42 AM »
Wraith-Bashing!
Marya Tanar, The Sword Mage
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Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 11:28:10 AM »
Wraith-Bashing!

Definitly a word I'll be using more often :P

Offline X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 11:58:31 AM »
Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly.

Changing between IC and OOC modes is par for the course in most rpgs, but in PBeM it's even more important. The intent or point of an email can very easily get lost, especially since you are missing all of the non-verbal cues that usually help us communicate, so being explicit and stating intent both in and out of character is vital.

That being said, "pointless" arguments are often damn fun and a good way to give you regent more personality and colour than can usually be achieved through dispathces. But like most things, this is good in moderation and should take overhand :P
Marya Tanar, The Sword Mage
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2009, 07:08:30 PM »
Let us see how we fare before promising to repeat "Wraith-bashing" over and over again. I have a feeling RoE undeads are rather more scary than the run-of-the-mill D&D undead (oh well also because Bjørn said so)

Being my usual pessimistic self I imagine the Countess will order "Wraith-bashed" written on your tombstones should we fail.

Do not tempt destiny muhahaha
His Holiness Wallac Isilviere, Pontiff of All Anuire, High Prefect of the Impregnable Heart of Haelyn

Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Diplomacy tips
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2009, 07:59:19 PM »
Let us see how we fare before promising to repeat "Wraith-bashing" over and over again. I have a feeling RoE undeads are rather more scary than the run-of-the-mill D&D undead (oh well also because Bjørn said so)

Being my usual pessimistic self I imagine the Countess will order "Wraith-bashed" written on your tombstones should we fail.

Do not tempt destiny muhahaha

Watch the off-topic chatter, guys - this thread's important, I think.