Twilightpeaks.net
TP.net => The Great Beyond (OOC) => : X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander) March 11, 2009, 11:45:38 AM
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This is an OOC mirror for "the definitive duel", which might end up being "the pitiful slaughter" ;)
Here is how I imagined it would go down:
I put the thread up there, people then chime in with descriptions and flourishes if they like (inserting themselves as spectatiors). People are already doing this, which is very cool.
Then the good knight is going to make his entrance at some point, there is likely going to be some banter - a repeat of the challenge and the matter of the trial.
Then there is going to be a fight - I suggest we (me and the dm's) take turns describing the actual fight. I would abide by the following rules:
- I can make myself look cool
- I can make the knight look cool
- I can inflict any amount of damage on myself
- I can only inflict bruises and minor damage on the knight
After a few posts back and forth, the dm's can tell me the result and I can narrate it, or they can just narrate it.
Sound reasonable?
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I'll be moderating this here fight since Bjørn is going away to Tromsø. So in addition to what you've written above, here's how it'll be done:
Basically we'll run it much like an adventure, you state what your character does and says :), I state what actually happens (based on the dice and either side's clever use of tactics). You're welcome to describe effects on your opponent, but please refrain from doing it too much. Basically because you don't know what he's capable of.
Damage will be of a more esoteric nature, no HP and such. So all will be based on description. Good descriptions always win.
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Will spectators be allowed to throw in small hushed comments to their neighbours during the fight awed by the skill and [I assume] shocked by the feroucity of the combatants attacks?
Jon? Alexander?
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Oh definitely, I certainly don't mind. Anything that adds to the mood and the descriptions.
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It is not only allowed, it is encouraged!
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Feel free to draw inspiration from the D&D combat rules as well.
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Feel free to draw inspiration from the D&D combat rules as well.
Start your Pun-Pun cycle! :o
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If I spot as much as the snout of a Kobold, I'll go ballistic and bring in the Hulking Planet-hurler... se where that gets us!
Oh, nice description by Ghieste. I like the offering of colours!
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Just read the rules regarding clerical spells... in 3.5 thats a very impressive lineup if available.
Bless for the +1 to hit.
Protection from (Alignment) for +2 AC.
Bull's Strength for +2 to hit and damage.
Cat's Grace for +2 AC.
Aid, for the +1d8+10 hps.
The above combined, would run what approximates +3 ECL of whoever was buffed... :)
And yes, the Ghieste addition was very cool.
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*blushes* Thank you for those kind words.
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Yeah, very cool and thanks for the assist - good to know I have some friends ;)
Btw, the swordmage is intentionally trying to move things too fast for Baron Tshalen to control, if my last post went too far, let me know. She is relying on the Green Knight stepping forward and meeting her challenge.
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Clever little bugger... ;D
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"Respect my Authority" - Thank you Jon for making me burst out laughing at work. ;)
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Hehe, same here :)
Also, "going red as a herring"... how much more obvious can you make it? Yes, I know he was just the distraction and the bait, but do you actually have to call him a red herring? :D
Nice play on words. And thank the Gods my ploy worked, otherwise things would look worse.
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Thanks guys, I'm a huge fan of Cartman... Poor Tshalen, he didn't deserve that... But I couldn't help myself! :P
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The last "clever tactic" the swordmage has up her sleeve is starting the fight with a Dispel Magic - removing whatever enchantments the Green Knight has on him. Other than that one, I am not going to use spell names or anything like that, it'll be all description - which also allows a certain creative license :D
Unfortunately all the smart strategies available to a high level sorcerer facing a high level melee specialist are very boring - the smart thing would be to cast fly and go 100 ft, then just start with the highest level evocation and keep going until there is only dust left. BORING.
Not gonna touch that, I'm going for a good old melee with a few special effects thrown in, which magic is good for :)
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LOL, this is a completely messed up situation for poor Arvour. Won't say why at this time. Jon certainly knows ;D
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I need you to describe which offensive spells you're using. Forum message will do fine.
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The last "clever tactic" the swordmage has up her sleeve is starting the fight with a Dispel Magic - removing whatever enchantments the Green Knight has on him. Other than that one, I am not going to use spell names or anything like that, it'll be all description - which also allows a certain creative license :D
Unfortunately all the smart strategies available to a high level sorcerer facing a high level melee specialist are very boring - the smart thing would be to cast fly and go 100 ft, then just start with the highest level evocation and keep going until there is only dust left. BORING.
Not gonna touch that, I'm going for a good old melee with a few special effects thrown in, which magic is good for :)
Except that BR magic has numerous limitations.
There are no 'fly' spells
There are no 'summon' spells (at least not the way they are used in normal d&d)
There is no invisbility.
Additionally 'Dispel Magic' only cancels only a single-effect. It is a very common misperception that Dispel Magic, as an Area of Effect, can cancel more than on magical effect on a target creature/object. It can not.
It runs through the magical effects, Highest Caster Level first, and once 1 effect is cancelled, Dispel magic is discharged with regards to that target.
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Good to know, I didn't know that... Thanks Gray.
Anything else on the magic front that should be said aforehand?
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Sorry to clarify.
It isn't BR magic, it is RoE BR Magic that has limitations.
I think there are other limitations which are in the FAQ (I will look for them and make a most).
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The last "clever tactic" the swordmage has up her sleeve is starting the fight with a Dispel Magic - removing whatever enchantments the Green Knight has on him. Other than that one, I am not going to use spell names or anything like that, it'll be all description - which also allows a certain creative license :D
Unfortunately all the smart strategies available to a high level sorcerer facing a high level melee specialist are very boring - the smart thing would be to cast fly and go 100 ft, then just start with the highest level evocation and keep going until there is only dust left. BORING.
Not gonna touch that, I'm going for a good old melee with a few special effects thrown in, which magic is good for :)
Except that BR magic has numerous limitations.
There are no 'fly' spells
There are no 'summon' spells (at least not the way they are used in normal d&d)
There is no invisbility.
Additionally 'Dispel Magic' only cancels only a single-effect. It is a very common misperception that Dispel Magic, as an Area of Effect, can cancel more than on magical effect on a target creature/object. It can not.
It runs through the magical effects, Highest Caster Level first, and once 1 effect is cancelled, Dispel magic is discharged with regards to that target.
Don't confuse the BR.net rules with RoE. There's some guidance on the following page:
http://roe.twilightpeaks.net/subpage12.html
E
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Ah, even better to know ;D
This excerpt for example:
"Casting time for any teleportation type spell is increased to 1 minute (10 rounds) for short-range spells like dimension door and 10 minutes for long-range spells like teleport. Travel is near instantaneous in the former case, but in the later the transit time is about 1 hour per every 100 miles crossed."
"Invisibility gives you a +20 circumstance bonus to Hide. You’re pretty much invisible, but it won’t make you completely undetectable (like Bilbo in the Hobbit). The greater version of the spell makes you impossible to Spot (but not automatically silent) but it does end it you attack."
"Fly, overland flight (or similar spells) still works normally, but duration changes to Concentration/Maximum X (where X is the spells old duration). If the concentration is broken or the spell otherwise ends, the caster falls normally (he does not drift slowly to the ground)."
I think that's really it. At least what's important for Alexander to know.
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My fault. I knew it was something like this just hadn't found the rule.
The basic gist was that normal d&d magic rules don't really apply verbatim.
Annoyingly, for the SM, Estevan is a Paladin, and has Divine Grace. He probably has a respectable, if not phenomenal, CHA score.
PS: Using Mind-affecting magic, is probably a social stigma for Anuire. Every time I have seen such in RoE, it has been attached with significant social stigma (except in the cases of clerics, not surprisingly).
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Well, no-one likes being messed with. If it's notices, yeah I'd guess it'd involve social stigma.
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Well, the Swordmage is loaded up on a slew of defensive and enhancing spells, both divine and arcane: Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Stoneskin, Haste, etc.
She has burned through everything she had of spell reserves, preparing for this fight.
Spells she's definitely going to use:
Dispel Magic
Lightning Bolt
Spells she might end up using:
Scorching Ray
Enervation
Glitterdust
Magic Missle
Mirror Image
And that's pretty much it... I'm planning on keeping this simple and sweet :)
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The last "clever tactic" the swordmage has up her sleeve is starting the fight with a Dispel Magic - removing whatever enchantments the Green Knight has on him. Other than that one, I am not going to use spell names or anything like that, it'll be all description - which also allows a certain creative license :D
Unfortunately all the smart strategies available to a high level sorcerer facing a high level melee specialist are very boring - the smart thing would be to cast fly and go 100 ft, then just start with the highest level evocation and keep going until there is only dust left. BORING.
Not gonna touch that, I'm going for a good old melee with a few special effects thrown in, which magic is good for :)
Except that BR magic has numerous limitations.
There are no 'fly' spells
There are no 'summon' spells (at least not the way they are used in normal d&d)
There is no invisbility.
Additionally 'Dispel Magic' only cancels only a single-effect. It is a very common misperception that Dispel Magic, as an Area of Effect, can cancel more than on magical effect on a target creature/object. It can not.
It runs through the magical effects, Highest Caster Level first, and once 1 effect is cancelled, Dispel magic is discharged with regards to that target.
Why would the SM want to use the Area version fo Dispel when targeting a single character (the GK)?
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Yup, quoted from the SRD:
Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect.
So it can be used as a single target effect to remove all the effects on a target. Btw, my last post - too much narration or a good standard?
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Aye it can; as an AoE spell it works as Gray pointed out, but targeted it works like you want it to ;D
I like the narrative; maybe a little too much, but hey, we can live with that.
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So now I narrated a little, to show that the GK has a shield capable of spell turning...has combat expertise and can fight defensively...and so on.
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Aye it can; as an AoE spell it works as Gray pointed out, but targeted it works like you want it to ;D
I like the narrative; maybe a little too much, but hey, we can live with that.
Yeah, sorry about turning Baron Tshalen into Baron Cartman... Or that other Southpark guy with the Hitler hairdo who freaks out "I AM ABOVE THE LAW!" lol couldn't help myself...
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Actually Alex is scoring points for excellent RP, while Jon isn't; he's banned from using any more SP references today ;D
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Dammit!
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And yet, I am the one dying.
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Yeah, sorry about that... :-[
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Yeah, sorry about that... :-[
My detect lie is flaring up like mad here...
:P
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Bastard! ;D
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Good night from DM Bjørn here...I'll be back for a few hours tomorrow, and then away to Tromsø.
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Enjoy...
Quick everyone, bribe Jon for freebies! ;D
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I'm cheap. ;)
I'm taking a break as well, the story continues tomorrow. Yall feel free to chip in!
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And its an event like this that starts intercontinental wars hehe
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Well, technically this is a brawl not a duel - most of the normal code duello is being ignored - everything from delay, apology, grant of offense, seconds, etc - the swordmage has been very sporting both as a player and character.
The green knight is very lucky that the swordmage didn't demand that the weapons be spells (the first insult clearly being from the baron she gets to choose under most of the codes, and the others generally let the ranking person pick which is again her) - and the baron very lucky she allowed the switch at all...
From my perspective Robhan is fairly impartial - the Sword Mage is a wizard he doesn't know well, the Green Knight a warrior whose honour he doesn't want to injure. Tornilen with a new ruler might be more amenable to godliness and it isn't as if the mad baron will get to run it anyway...
Of course that wouldn't stop the Pontiff simply declaring the duel over, he;s already ignoring the clergy/noble divide already, and I'm not sure if he technically out-ranks a baron to demand the duel is paused while they gut the baron... assuming that the Sword Mage would let anyone interfere.
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Spells were allowed and used. But the Green Knight has protection up his arse against it.
And the Swordmage isn't a bona fide duchess, she just calls herself that - like Ghieste, but she hasn't gotten any kind of real peer review up until recently - and by the priests no less, which is a good first step, but also seen as suspect by the nobility.
She is, as Tshalen says, a commoner. A very powerful commoner albeit, but not a "real" Duchess. Only the true nobility can accept new nobles - i.e. the right name.
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I'd reply to Robhan but seeing that I'm in the middle of a sprint towards the Green knight that would be stretching the believability just a bit now :)
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Sigh, its too late for me to stick around, but take as a given that the complete ignorance of the various laws (a healthy man of inferior rank insults a lady and gets to call weapons?) is really annoying Robbie
And the fact that the Sword Mage allowed the switch, the choice of weapons (hmm, I call reciting the 20 common spells of Lorien) gives her huge moral clout.
Robbie can't call out the baron - he is a) a priest and b) probably doesn't rank him anyway ignoring priestly rank - but if murder is done he's more than happy to lug people to the docks...
And actually Auramel as a noble who out-ranks the baron can just order the duel stopped - or demand the right to a) swap for the duchess (a woman) and b) simultaneously refuse to accept the baron's substitution (the baron being the party causing insult by ordering another man to beat a woman of noble rank) - making it a very one sided duel that would earn him much kudos - and the green knight would have to hope that the legal court - likely headed by the pontiff (not exactly impartial but then who is) - found in his favour if he did anything.
GN has won the moral victory of sword vs spell already - and won a duel with the brother if drago has any guts - so he's got nothing to gain by interfering.
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Well, technically this is a brawl not a duel - most of the normal code duello is being ignored - everything from delay, apology, grant of offense, seconds, etc - the swordmage has been very sporting both as a player and character.
The green knight is very lucky that the swordmage didn't demand that the weapons be spells (the first insult clearly being from the baron she gets to choose under most of the codes, and the others generally let the ranking person pick which is again her) - and the baron very lucky she allowed the switch at all...
From my perspective Robhan is fairly impartial - the Sword Mage is a wizard he doesn't know well, the Green Knight a warrior whose honour he doesn't want to injure. Tornilen with a new ruler might be more amenable to godliness and it isn't as if the mad baron will get to run it anyway...
Of course that wouldn't stop the Pontiff simply declaring the duel over, he;s already ignoring the clergy/noble divide already, and I'm not sure if he technically out-ranks a baron to demand the duel is paused while they gut the baron... assuming that the Sword Mage would let anyone interfere.
Isn't this assuming that there are several actual laws and codes lain down? As I recall duelling 101 on a simple basis, the one who challenges doesn't get to pick weapons and such.
Besides, as Jon states, she isn't a "real" duchess, so it actually is beneath the Baron's status and thus she is the one insulting *him*, speaking up against a higher ranked noble (giving him ample reason to call upon "his" champion).
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Hehe, in addition to being the resident masochist (the best is yet to comeTM LOL) I used to be the resident medievalist in many PBEMs until I realized that trying to force people into accepting whatever view of the middle ages I thought was "right" wasn't the proper way of doing it.
So, while I understand your logic, we cannot really enforce any one single "rules of engagement" that the DM hasn't sanctioned.
Besides, what works for a lawful paladin of Haelyn might be "too procedural" for the not so lawful paladin of Cuiraecen.
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Thorsten's got the gist of it, as do Robert.
However, Andy it hitting very very close to an important point of this whole mess. I shan't point out what.
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Hehe, the great "stoneman" of Osoerde speaks :) I guess the emotionless William fails to understand that the Stormlord is not for principles and procedure as much as for blind emotion and impulsiveness ;)
P.S. Good RP Harv!
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Hehe, the great "stoneman" of Osoerde speaks :) I guess the emotionless William fails to understand that the Stormlord is not for principles and procedure as much as for blind emotion and impulsiveness ;)
P.S. Good RP Harv!
Thanks, Robert!
I personally am all for this. As far as I can tell, this is total insanity. When all is said and done, to kill (or attempt) Estvan because it was two against one, is beyond shameful IC in RoE.
Nonetheless, I think I just offered Arvour a challenge he cannot neccessarily refuse, particular given how 'passionate' he is.
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I guess I should note to everyone:
Osoer killed the Prince-Consort of Aerewe, Caemed Roesone, half-brother of Arvour Roesone.
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Well, Arvour can't really hear you since he's running towards the combatants right now and, don't worry, he certainly won't attempt to "double team" Estevan. He's offering to take SM's place instead of her brother which is what Estevan wanted, but he didn't show, unfortunately.
Oh, and as for Caemed/Marlae, they've been relegated to cousins according to the new canon. Arvour is now the grandson to Daen Roesone, not great-grandson, making him first cousin to Marlae/Caemed's father Teried.
But this doesn't change the fact that you've got justice comin' yer way, ye diyty muydeyin wat ;D
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I think the world you were looking for Robert was....
"Varmit!"
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Isn't this assuming that there are several actual laws and codes lain down? As I recall duelling 101 on a simple basis, the one who challenges doesn't get to pick weapons and such.
Besides, as Jon states, she isn't a "real" duchess, so it actually is beneath the Baron's status and thus she is the one insulting *him*, speaking up against a higher ranked noble (giving him ample reason to call upon "his" champion).
Oh now that opens a can of worms - who has the 'right to the title' - a common cause of duels. If you can ignore a 'title' just because you feel that it is yours and not theirs then the entire system falls down - the incumbent may be 'proven' not to hold right to the title in duel, but untilthey lose the duel they hold it - and no sane system will suggest differently.
The insult by the way is not her claiming title, or usurping his rank - that happened far too long ago - again duelling codes will vary, but most demand that the insult is recent. Not difficult to circumvent if you want a duel - you just blow off about it and then the insult is new again - but the question of 'who first through the insult' at the S&C if judged is very likely to be the Baron... as for which set of rules let you pick time/place, weapons etc that will vary, but usually it will be 'the victim' simply because that protects against the killer-picking-fights scenario.
As for substitution, substitutes were quite rare - particularly if the party was healthy. Can a duke have their leg-breakers beat up a commoner? yes - but that isn't a duel its the law. Can two nobles insult each other and then one hide behind a professional killer? Not a chance in hell, the whole point is that they are the ones offended, and that as nobles there honour is their life.
And then you comes to scions - bloodtheft is heresy, outlawed - think of why. Why would the churches outlaw scions hunting each other down and going highlander? Answer it would lead to the extermination of the upper class as a gorgon-style killer simply walked around picking dues, claiming the others bloodline and go on to kill again.
The GN may want to draw drago into a duel, but he should damn well have the guts to go into the cathederal and challenge him directly - picking a fight with the man's sister frankly shames him. He may want to kill a mage for fun, fine, but he has to personally challenge her to do so.
And certainly if the GN simply kills the SM after disarming her, instead of offering her the chance to apologise, is waay out of line - the SM should of course call for pause and apologise (bit your tongue woman! you lost, that's the rules!) - but any chivalrous opponent will remind a defeated duellist of the option rather than gloating over their victory and going for the kill....
As for 'why have any rules' the present fiasco is the obvious reason - seconds arrange everything so that all agree that it is 'fair' or 'legal' - and so that loopy lovers and honour-bound fools don't charge in if their man is losing.
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Let me put this as simply as I can.
The Swordmage isn't a Duchess, by virtue that noone has acknowledged her claim to that title. It's just sort of slipped through the cracks of general Anuirean chaos. Just like Baron Roesone originally did (obviously his title is generally accepted now).
So socially speaking, there are many who do not see her as such and do not believe she is protected by any peer superiority granted her by title. Tshalen is seen by many as being the arm of the law in this matter. Dealing one way or another with a problem her neighbours never have.
"Many" would in this case seem to be very Anuire City centric, but the sentiment is widespread all over Anuire.
As for all the rest? Well Tshalen is an old man, so he's well in his rights to be represented by a champion - especially since he's the challenged party. The Swordmage could have changed the composition of the duel's contents if she wanted to, but let's face it - she's a bloody Vos! They haven't read the code duello, they just kill people they don't like!
As for all the rest, you've hit the nail on the head. Apart from the bit about "the man's sister". The Swordmage helped defeat the Eyeless One, perhaps the most horrible entity in all Anuire after the Gorgon. She's a worthy opponent by any standard.
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Well, Arvour can't really hear you since he's running towards the combatants right now and, don't worry, he certainly won't attempt to "double team" Estevan. He's offering to take SM's place instead of her brother which is what Estevan wanted, but he didn't show, unfortunately.
Oh, and as for Caemed/Marlae, they've been relegated to cousins according to the new canon. Arvour is now the grandson to Daen Roesone, not great-grandson, making him first cousin to Marlae/Caemed's father Teried.
But this doesn't change the fact that you've got justice comin' yer way, ye diyty muydeyin wat ;D
Pfff... that's cheating! He was supposed to be a bastard, you bastard!
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It is complicated, and by accepting what she has so far the SwordMage has given up a number of "niceities" that otherwise might be considered to be the norm or in play.
But as has been said, she is a Vos after all...
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This is good, Baron Roesone has now triggered the Knight's divine wrath...that's what happends when a bastard tries his hand at anything; the gods have cursed them you know, so nothing good can come from their actions ::)
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Pfff... that's cheating! He was supposed to be a bastard, you bastard!
Umm... I haven't changed anything, I got it handed down to me. Oh and don't worry, Arvour's still a bastard, as you may well see from Bjorn's post and from what happened to him lol
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Ummm... where was I hit exactly, arm or leg, or was it rib? First it says under my armpit, then deep in the knee and then that my arm is hanging uselessly at the side.
Then again, it could have been all three in one stroke, judging by Green Knight's speed.
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OOC: Ok, that guy is just insane! - He is dropping level 6-7 regents like chaff.
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Note to self: Avoid changing font size... it get's a bit cheesy ::)
Did I forget to mention, that Ser Estevan was the one who led every single charge in war for Mieres? The man is insane... (and yet I find myself crossing blades with him?!)
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Sorry for the terribly OOC post, but I believe this video might be of inspiration to several of the regents right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno)
The Green Knight has changed into a white one, but the resemblance is scary nontheless.
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Pontiff Aurlien?! Whaaaaaat? :o
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Ooops. I appear to have left my arm on the floor....
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Ooops. I appear to have left my arm on the floor....
Someone, give the guy a hand. ;D
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That would be handy... after all Ghorien is armless after all....
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Seems I missed a divine intervention at page 4 or so.. Too bad the frenzy of postings lost server connection and demand of job.
In pm I have given Jon absolutely free reigns to act with Wallac Isilviere ANY way he ses fit including ending his life to save a few innocent bystanders.
Bjørn can do so too ofcause but it was in a reply to pm from Jon
I have not the time to write an appropiate post where Pontiff Wallac Isilviere throws his life away but consider it done.
Sorry guys
Having finished his argument with Baron TsHalen the Pontiff and some of his Knights stand in front of Baron TsHalen. The matter with the Baron seems to be forgotten for now though all attention on the duelists.
Whispering albeit the louder kind of whisper, Pontiff Isilviere try to find hope where there is likely none to be found.
“Divine All Farther pray help me find a way to save both these unbelievable skilled fighters”
Jons Answer:
And there it is, right in front of you. You're looking down at the pure, naked terror of this man, you got him good just then. But the memory won't go away.
You have seen him before! Like this! In the grip of terror!
It was... In the time of High Prefect Hubaere Armiendin... Holy relics had been stolen. A good many years ago. You received information that the Tshalen family had stolen them! And indeed there they were! Hidden away in their treasury.
They had denied everything at first of course, but the templars had been thorough and when you came, as aide to one of the Bishops. You saw him. In the grip of terror. His entire family, reduced to shuddering, terror-stricken islands of humanity... Lost.
Later it was discovered that it was the Swordmage who had stolen the objects and planted them with the Tshalen family. It was discovered and they were cleared of all charges, but somehow the family never really recovered... And war threw a blanket of blood over the necessary retribution. Later it was forgotten... So many horrible things happened in those years, Tshalen became just one out of so very many.
And Aurlien forgave her everything, just like that. And she fought and killed the Eyeless One. Crazy Aurlien...
But this man never did! Never forgave anyone anything.
But as I said frenzied posting. :-[
I go back to my rl job now lol
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Ummm... where was I hit exactly, arm or leg, or was it rib? First it says under my armpit, then deep in the knee and then that my arm is hanging uselessly at the side.
Then again, it could have been all three in one stroke, judging by Green Knight's speed.
Right armpit, making you right arm useless; and also in the rear of the knee.
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Seems I missed a divine intervention at page 4 or so.. Too bad the frenzy of postings lost server connection and demand of job.
In pm I have given Jon absolutely free reigns to act with Wallac Isilviere ANY way he ses fit including ending his life to save a few innocent bystanders.
Bjørn can do so too ofcause but it was in a reply to pm from Jon
I have not the time to write an appropiate post where Pontiff Wallac Isilviere throws his life away but consider it done.
Sorry guys
Ah, OK.
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I can tell you, even if you had gotten Tshalen to stop the fight, the Green Knight probably wouldn't have relented.
It still isn't too late for you to save the Baron's soul - in fact this may be the right time to do it.
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OOC: Ok, that guy is just insane! - He is dropping level 6-7 regents like chaff.
Then consider how dangerous the Swordmage is. She actually managed to hold him off for quite a while. Obviously that was before he went "ding-dong-the witch is dead!"
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Indeed. I am actually surprised that a half-sheared ear, and a few broken ribs is "all" that Kaven got. But then again, he was last in line, so the divine wrath may have run out by then (thank Haelyn for small mercies) ::)
Watching both of these two fight before, I was fairly sure of the outcome, but not surprised that she managed so well. Nice job! :D
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No Swordmage, you have to stay AWAY from the Green Knight ;D
Hmm... shall there be another challenge to see who gets to yield, the baron or SM?
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Did Kaven not allready loose a toe in Ilien?
And now another part of his body goes missing. Perhaps its time to start looking for means of regeneration?
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Did Kaven not allready loose a toe in Ilien?
And now another part of his body goes missing. Perhaps its time to start looking for means of regeneration?
Oh sod off! :D
He'll get a reputation as the Maimed Knight in a while... The Maimed Knight of Medoere... does have a nice ring to it, even though it perhaps isn't a positive nickname ;D
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The Maimed knight eh? I like it!
Estevan Daulton the Green Knight
Ser Guy de Nichaleir the Red Knight
Duchess Anasatie Daulton the Grey Knight
Baron Kaven Enlien the Maimed Knight.
Now all we need is a round table and a King.
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Did the Sword Mage just accept a marriage proposal??
Rashid is drifting closer to hear what going on, sending dagger eyes to the blundering Pontiff who seems determined to bluster about and set the agenda.
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Battlefield ProposalTM, its a required proficiency for Cuiraecenite paladins :D
Oh, and if you thought the proposal was bloody, wait till you see the wedding... if you dare attend ;D
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The wedding can take place in the Spider Fell while we pay back the goblins for their bloody raids ;D
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If it's anything like the weddings of George R.R. Martins books, I'd rather take on the Gnolls of Mieres again... alone ::)
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Nah, its cool. Randy already did the Martin's Red Wedding in BR Night of Fire with a great many casualties (and it also included Sword Mage though not as bride hehe) so I'm pretty sure Bjorn will think of something on an even larger scale, probably a demon or dragon or some such :D
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Now all we need is a round table and a King.
I happily accept your nominations.
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Guess I am Mordred then! :D
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I'll be Lancelot. ;D
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I'll take the role of "the bard who survives it all and hands the story down." Since I don't recall many of the other folks surviving, and most of those spent the rest of their lives in shame.
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Let me put this as simply as I can.
The Swordmage isn't a Duchess, by virtue that noone has acknowledged her claim to that title....
I expect that there some sort of 'speak now or forever hold your peace' bit in most coronations - if he'd challenged when she claimed power he'd be fine to send in a heavy - by allowing her to claim the rank he implicitly recognises it - as does everyone else. (Including Robhan). Not knowing how long she's been 'duchess' makes it a bit hard to comment, but since the duel is about the recent insult, not the rank, ignoring the rank in the duel opens rather nasty floodgates.
As for all the rest? Well Tshalen is an old man, so he's well in his rights to be represented by a champion - especially since he's the challenged party. The Swordmage could have changed the composition of the duel's contents if she wanted to, but let's face it - she's a bloody Vos! They haven't read the code duello, they just kill people they don't like!
Which is what is really bugging Robhan - the swordmage - a Vos upstart for Haelyn's sake - is the one showing courage and honour while the Haelynite knight is sneaking around plotting, scheming and plotting murder. Gahh! Incidentally I didn't realise that Tshalen was an old guy, and don't see Tshalen as the challenged - he definitely issued the insult, so is the challenger by many standards (it's too easy to start this sort of slaughter if you can goad someone into a duel and then lcaim to be the wronged party but then rules vary by culture...)
As for all the rest, you've hit the nail on the head. Apart from the bit about "the man's sister". The Swordmage helped defeat the Eyeless One, perhaps the most horrible entity in all Anuire after the Gorgon. She's a worthy opponent by any standard.
Robhan's been told women are worthy as warriors many times, he was still pounded for years by 4 elder brothers in a into thinking of them as soft sweet little things to be protected. I never said he was right, just how he saw it - now if the Green Knight had challenged her to a duel of sorcery / divine faith vs sorcery, Robhan would have been far happier - but to pick a sword fight with someone half his size? It's hard to see it as something other than bullying - and frankly Vos/goblin behaviour - I'm bigger, so I'm right - and to hell with honour.
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Interesting post you made there Andy
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There are several assumptions made there, that I believe you are wrong in, Andy.
First of, an insult does not warrant a challenge at all. If that was the way, noone would dare say anything, because people could choose to take insult at even a mispercieved slight and then suddenly you'd have a duel on your hand with the insulted part choosing time and weapons.
Imagine the Green Knight turning to you, after you just congratulated him on a victory and state "You said what about my mother? Insult! Duel on swords tomorrow at noon!" It might be exaggerating, but it might also not. If you consider an insult a challenge, I have the first 4-5 duels I need to deal with. Take it to the realm-levels: Would you consider going to war, if the OIT called the Haelyn's Aegis "stuffed up pretenders"? It's an insult...
As it it, you can use insults as the baron did here, to pick a fight. The Swordmage could have shrugged and left. Had she done so, the Baron would just have come of as a hotheaded man and most would have scoffed at his bad manners... as it is, the Swordmage challenged him, assuming that he would back down, or that she could easily beat the elderly man. She issued the actual challenge, and by doing so became the aggressor and fell in the barons trap with both legs and eyes wide shut (as Alex put it). It was a brilliant move... and though Kaven does NOT appreciate the way things happened, it did happen by the book.
Secondly, the only group who have recognized her as a duchess (to my knowledge), is the temples... but since they aren't a secular power, they might have influence in the matter, but no final say. If you held a council between the gathered nobility at the moment, my guess is, that the Swordmage would be officially stripped of her "title" (though it'd probably be a challenge to actual sieze anything from her.)
Thirdly, she's a reputed sorceress and warrior (heck it's pretty recent that people discovered she was a female, right? Or is that just RoE II canon?). When she challenges someone, they usually have something to fear.
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'there is nothing for us in this city being seeing to the Patriarch's wounds, and honest men need our aid at home where honour and law yet remain'. With that he turns and leaves.
It would probably not be too well received if HA left before the special session of CoT speaking these words. The basis for quite some misunderstandings (?) ;D
Ofcause HA have not announced they will be present at the session
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Oh I'm not assuming that insult = duel, just that 'you assumed a throne 'x' years ago = reason for a duel today.
But to declare a duel the person must feel wronged - rightly or not - otherwise its just a fight. So you have an 'insult', then a period to consider, then the seconds (of one sort or another) suggest an apology which both can live with, it only goes to an actual duel (first blood, wound, etc) if they both insist on fighting.
It likely should have gone 'ser estaban is who??? sh*t! Ahem, grits teeth, perhaps I mis-spoke...' crawl woman - eat your pride and have everyone laugh... Now that would have been victory for the baron - and all without a drop of blood shed.
So if as you suggest the Aegis was called stuffed up pretenders robhan would laugh, the OIT have been obsolete for years - to be insulted by them they'd have to be right which is, of course, impossible ::) The 'insult' is not an 'insult to honour' it's just words. But if someone publicly derided Haelyn, accused Roele of raping captives, burnt a temple, etc, etc then it would be insult - and by the gods they would beg forgiveness - or it would get bloody. Put simply, somethings cannot just be shrugged off by a man of honour...
The baron cast the first insult - the sword mage responded with one of her own. Now you can say that the baron was honest - in which case it was no insult - the question of who started it tends to be settled by a 'jury of peers' - or simply the survivors. But a noble has to respond to a serious insult by someone credible - the baron was the aggressor as his comments were not 'gee, I think you were mean not to let my family take our old place' but were very deliberate provocation to force response - modern people might say 'who threw the first punch', medieval people interpreted aggression as including injury to honour (as do many today outside of lawyers of course). not that 'who started it makes much difference' - who picks where / when / how / what level of injury / etc all depends on the exact codes of the duel in question.
Could the swordmage have ignored the baron? Wrong question, Could she have ignored his comments without losing face? Did the insult disparage her honour in someway? Impugn her right to title? If so then no she couldn't - not and keep any noble honour. Which of course is what the baron/whoever was behind it all wanted.
Now she could have tried deriding him as a nobody, laughing him off as so far beneath her that his words were meaningless - and perhaps pulled it off - but then the fact that her title is not fully recognised is precisely why that wouldn't work - and patience is a virtue because it is rare...
As is was the baron came over as scum, he doesn't even make 'brute' hid behind the green knight, he hoped (rightly) that her honour and pride would be her undoing. How brave and noble of him! Now if he had fought her himself then he'd have had major honour - and won regardless of the outcome by showing such courage - if he was right about her and she uses magic to kill him then she loses what shreds of credibility she has, so she's caught between winning but not smashing him which is tricky - and all the while everyone has heard, and everyone is laughing at her predicament. But no, the baron picked the fight, rammed it through before anyone could intervene, and refused to offer chance for apology, the honourable man seeing foe outmatched offers them surrender, if they are foolish enough to ignore it (she probably would have) then they can indulge in slaughter.
The GN doesn't come off much better, if he'd wanted to fight her brother he should have challenged the brother, if he wanted to fight the swordmage he should have challenged her directly. Big brave knight who plots and schemes to fight someone half his size only on the grounds most favourable to him... we had heard so much better of him... as it is his madness is going to leave a stain deserved or not - the knight who slaughters friend and foe alike, who is drunk on blood and death...
No, if you are looking for a 'winner' look at who ensorcelled the knight / convinced him that the best way to hurt a belinik thug was to become one himself. Personally I wouldn't put much odds on the baron living out the winter one way or the other.
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'there is nothing for us in this city being seeing to the Patriarch's wounds, and honest men need our aid at home where honour and law yet remain'. With that he turns and leaves.
It would probably not be too well received if HA left before the special session of CoT speaking these words. The basis for quite some misunderstandings (?) ;D
Ofcause HA have not announced they will be present at the session
Nope, given the whole thread happened in zilch flat (how many pages since I got back? Eepers! I thought we were at 'now lets cool things down, got to the next thread and saw the SM was already being creamed) I figure he came, saw, got dis-illusioned in the first day or two and left.
Robhan won't even know about the special conclave unless someone tells him on his way from healing the patriarch's soldiers and any others injured in the panic. He'd just send an apology most likely, he's not been impressed with the conclave so far - he's in it from duty, that's about all.
A few of his people will take a little longer to leave - his second is saying hi to the family for example, so might be there briefly, in practice it depends on whether I get a chance to log on (I'm off to the parents for the weekend) before the pontiff declares war and the benches are drowned in blood...
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Oh I'm not assuming that insult = duel, just that 'you assumed a throne 'x' years ago = reason for a duel today.
But to declare a duel the person must feel wronged - rightly or not - otherwise its just a fight. So you have an 'insult', then a period to consider, then the seconds (of one sort or another) suggest an apology which both can live with, it only goes to an actual duel (first blood, wound, etc) if they both insist on fighting.
The Baron cast the first insult... that day... agreed.
In my eyes, the Baron expresed his opinion. He breached etiquette by doing so, yes... but notice, that the Swordmage never demanded an appology. Her first words following his statement was "Those are fighting words Baron, I demand satisfaction" and that's the actual challenge.
Had she asked for an appology, keeping calm and keeping up appearance, it might have gone otherwise. Instead she took the bait. The Baron must have had a hard time, to resist punching his fist into the air and going "Yes!"
It's a game of politics and etiquette, and the winner is the one who keeps appearances the longest.
It likely should have gone 'ser estaban is who??? sh*t! Ahem, grits teeth, perhaps I mis-spoke...' crawl woman - eat your pride and have everyone laugh... Now that would have been victory for the baron - and all without a drop of blood shed.
Yes, instead it would seem someone saw an easy prey in the weak and hotheaded Baron and jumped at it. ::)
So if as you suggest the Aegis was called stuffed up pretenders robhan would laugh, the OIT have been obsolete for years - to be insulted by them they'd have to be right which is, of course, impossible ::) The 'insult' is not an 'insult to honour' it's just words. But if someone publicly derided Haelyn, accused Roele of raping captives, burnt a temple, etc, etc then it would be insult - and by the gods they would beg forgiveness - or it would get bloody. Put simply, somethings cannot just be shrugged off by a man of honour...
On the other hand, did the HA not split from the original temple? If the OIT had the force, do you think they'd stop once, to consider? No, they'd provoke the HA to conflict.. preferably in such a way, as to make it appear as if the HA is the agressor and then pwn your arse :D
The baron cast the first insult - the sword mage responded with one of her own.
Actually, as I pointed out... her first words called to a duel. There's disappointingly few words about the no-doubt questionable lineage of the Baron :D
Now you can say that the baron was honest - in which case it was no insult - the question of who started it tends to be settled by a 'jury of peers' - or simply the survivors. But a noble has to respond to a serious insult by someone credible - the baron was the aggressor as his comments were not 'gee, I think you were mean not to let my family take our old place' but were very deliberate provocation to force response - modern people might say 'who threw the first punch', medieval people interpreted aggression as including injury to honour (as do many today outside of lawyers of course). not that 'who started it makes much difference' - who picks where / when / how / what level of injury / etc all depends on the exact codes of the duel in question.
Framing his entire lineage and house (albeit some time ago) would in my book qualify as "the first punch"...
Could the swordmage have ignored the baron? Wrong question, Could she have ignored his comments without losing face? Did the insult disparage her honour in someway? Impugn her right to title? If so then no she couldn't - not and keep any noble honour. Which of course is what the baron/whoever was behind it all wanted.
Now she could have tried deriding him as a nobody, laughing him off as so far beneath her that his words were meaningless - and perhaps pulled it off - but then the fact that her title is not fully recognised is precisely why that wouldn't work - and patience is a virtue because it is rare...
As is was the baron came over as scum, he doesn't even make 'brute' hid behind the green knight, he hoped (rightly) that her honour and pride would be her undoing. How brave and noble of him! Now if he had fought her himself then he'd have had major honour - and won regardless of the outcome by showing such courage - if he was right about her and she uses magic to kill him then she loses what shreds of credibility she has, so she's caught between winning but not smashing him which is tricky - and all the while everyone has heard, and everyone is laughing at her predicament. But no, the baron picked the fight, rammed it through before anyone could intervene, and refused to offer chance for apology, the honourable man seeing foe outmatched offers them surrender, if they are foolish enough to ignore it (she probably would have) then they can indulge in slaughter.
The GN doesn't come off much better, if he'd wanted to fight her brother he should have challenged the brother, if he wanted to fight the swordmage he should have challenged her directly. Big brave knight who plots and schemes to fight someone half his size only on the grounds most favourable to him... we had heard so much better of him... as it is his madness is going to leave a stain deserved or not - the knight who slaughters friend and foe alike, who is drunk on blood and death...
No, if you are looking for a 'winner' look at who ensorcelled the knight / convinced him that the best way to hurt a belinik thug was to become one himself. Personally I wouldn't put much odds on the baron living out the winter one way or the other.
Although I agree that it was a dastardly way of dealing with it, it all happened according to an unwritten(?) code of conduct. It was not the Baron who challenged, thus it is the Swordmage who brought conflict to the Sword and Crown... the incident with the Green Knight is something completely different though :D
Once again, in the world of Anuirean nobility it all comes down to who has the appearance of righteousness... not who actually *is* right. Just as you stated, it's all settled by a 'jury of peers'.
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What exactly happened with this Tshalen baron? What was he baron of and when did this big setup take place?
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And there it is, right in front of you. You're looking down at the pure, naked terror of this man, you got him good just then. But the memory won't go away.
You have seen him before! Like this! In the grip of terror!
It was... In the time of High Prefect Hubaere Armiendin... Holy relics had been stolen. A good many years ago. You received information that the Tshalen family had stolen them! And indeed there they were! Hidden away in their treasury.
They had denied everything at first of course, but the templars had been thorough and when you came, as aide to one of the Bishops. You saw him. In the grip of terror. His entire family, reduced to shuddering, terror-stricken islands of humanity... Lost.
Later it was discovered that it was the Swordmage who had stolen the objects and planted them with the Tshalen family. It was discovered and they were cleared of all charges, but somehow the family never really recovered... And war threw a blanket of blood over the necessary retribution. Later it was forgotten... So many horrible things happened in those years, Tshalen became just one out of so very many.
And Aurlien forgave her everything, just like that. And she fought and killed the Eyeless One. Crazy Aurlien...
But this man never did! Never forgave anyone anything.
From the dueling thread... this is of course Pontiff Wallac's personal feelings, but there's a good glimpse at the history there, and I'm guessing that some of this, at least, is known?
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It's not a secret, but then again it's over a decade ago, maybe even 20 years, so most nobles outside of the general area wouldn't know it. You hear most of the story from the Pontiff during the duel - if you're not to wrapped up in the general mayhem ::)
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It's not a secret, but then again it's over a decade ago, maybe even 20 years, so most nobles outside of the general area wouldn't know it. You hear most of the story from the Pontiff during the duel - if you're not to wrapped up in the general mayhem ::)
Or getting your ears chopped of.
Kaven is in his start 30'ies now... the chances of him knowing is pretty slim.
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It's not a secret, but then again it's over a decade ago, maybe even 20 years, so most nobles outside of the general area wouldn't know it. You hear most of the story from the Pontiff during the duel - if you're not to wrapped up in the general mayhem ::)
Or getting your ears chopped of.
Kaven is in his start 30'ies now... the chances of him knowing is pretty slim.
And stories like these are in endless supply. Anuire is not a nice place and people carry grudges a long time.
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Arvour's been doing mercenary fork for nearly two decades before he became regent 8 years ago, but yah, he probably wouldn't have care much for a particular baron.
Where is he from however, what was he baron of?
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He is still a Baron, he is one of Osoerde's vassals. He holds the same lands as before, only now he is a vassal of Osoerde instead of Ghoere. This is all bitterness and hate stemming from the dissolution of Ghoere and the events that followed... The Swordmage did some nasty stuff back then, this is one of them.
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He's one of my fellows - runs Osoerde's West Hold like I do South Hold. Except I'm nicer and prettier and cooler in every way.
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He is still a Baron, he is one of Osoerde's vassals. He holds the same lands as before, only now he is a vassal of Osoerde instead of Ghoere. This is all bitterness and hate stemming from the dissolution of Ghoere and the events that followed... The Swordmage did some nasty stuff back then, this is one of them.
Tshalen was a vassal of Osoerde at the time. This even took place during the Inquisition period in Osoerde where numerous House were decimated after being exposed as worshippers of the Dark Gods, and the ETN & IHH were battling the TCB tooth and nail in Osoerde (tons of realm magic being wielded, contestations, ruling etc, it was very ugly).
Basically what happened in RoEI was...
Artifacts of the IHH were stolen (Chalice of something or other).
SM warpped Tshalen minds, persumably to set a trap for the High Prefect of the IHH (very wise).
Osoer, High Prefect (Armeindin) and Wallac Isilviere arrived (with numerous retainers) and a very well hidden Iron Rider.
Wallac & Osoer are set loose on House Tshalen.
Armiendin (and an 'aide', the obfuscated Iron Rider) locate the Chalice in Achiese.
Armiendin is attacked by Drago and a hidden wizard (Sword Mage).
Suddenly, IR appears and engages the SM (they duel even).
Armeindin and Drago duke it out. Armiendin is wounded by the Axe of Belinik (Haelynites should beware that axe, btw -- it wasn't fun). Drago takes a savage blow from Armeindin (blasted by an Empowered Flame Strike).
SM and Drago retreat.
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He's one of my fellows - runs Osoerde's West Hold like I do South Hold. Except I'm nicer and prettier and cooler in every way.
Wow, something else that Arvour and SM have in common... a baron of "<insert cardinal direction> Hold" as best buddy foreverTM ;D
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Except that those two cases have opposing roles: Arvour has a valid complaint against Bellamie, whereas Tshalen is the one with a pretty hefty grievance against the Swordmage. Tshalen's entire house could have been ended, and he and every member of his family executed as heretics, to say nothing of the damage/horror inflicted on his mind as a result of the (presumably) Subversion spell employed here. Equivalent to someone who tried to destroy your kingdom and kill every member of your family in Azrai's name. Compared to that, Bellamie's actions, even in the darkest light you paint them, were pretty minor. Add in that she not only walked away consequence-free, but is now a "duchess", and kingdom ruler, and is being heralded as a Defender of the Light, and I can't really blame Tshalen for being a little touchy on the whole subject, somehow.
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Thank you Bobby! Finally someone seeing the light.
The only thing that went wrong was Tshalen hadn't counted on the Green Knight having other plans.
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Thank you Bobby! Finally someone seeing the light.
The only thing that went wrong was Tshalen hadn't counted on the Green Knight having other plans.
I think one could argue more than that went wrong, as Ghorien's missing hand would testify, but I get what you mean Mr Dragon Sir! ;)
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What exactly happened with this Tshalen baron? What was he baron of and when did this big setup take place?
OoC:
Neither was he Baron of West Hold nor was there a Barony of West Hold, at the time (to which you are presumably referring) . . . unless RoE I history has been altered in this case.
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I knew it! William Osoer's setup! :p
j/k in all likelihood there's a small rewrite of history for RoeII
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I think one could argue more than that went wrong, as Ghorien's missing hand would testify, but I get what you mean Mr Dragon Sir! ;)
Aside from the classic Cuiracean romance scene going off without a hitch, I honestly can't think of much that didn't go wrong. Can we please get a ban on S&C duels? They Do Not End Well, people! How much clearer does this point need to be made??
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Ban on S&C duels? No way, then the S&C would just be boring lectures about goblins and whatnot :P
If you ask me, the S&C can hardly be called successful unless at least one regent/high-profile character is killed off. I'm very disappointed with the DM's this turn.
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Oh duels can go well - although you get thread waterfalls and we all get lost. But like all duels you need careful rules to make it the dance of honour - otherwise it degenerates, fools rush in, and chaos ensues.
That one was clearly for the dogs from the outset, a frothing baron who screams insults in public - and refuses all counsel for calm, openly admits to having plotted revenge (do it, but don't say it man!), can't convince his own family to stand for him (if there is any left of course), hasn't the courage to die well after living miserably - good god he might as well be pouring the milk in first or passing port to the right...
Her first words following his statement was "Those are fighting words Baron, I demand satisfaction" and that's the actual challenge.
No, it is the response to the challenge against her honour - his words challenge and demand response - think of cause and effect, why did the SM go all noble on us (technically all Vos, but a real noble would have responded identically). As I said fairly irrelevant though - the challenged/challenger point impact depends on the code. Another way to see it is noble peasant - a peasant insults a noble, the noble thrashes the peasant. Has the noble assaulted the peasant, no, they have responded to the insult to their honour - not that anyone would likely give a damn in this case. A noble's honour is a tangible thing - which is why feuds lasted so long and duels so prevalent - strike a man's honour and you strike the man.
Yes, instead it would seem someone saw an easy prey in the weak and hotheaded Baron and jumped at it
:D amusing, but very contrived - only nobles care, and none of them would ignore such a challenge. The baron could have apologised if he was the victim - but instead very clearly rejoiced in his success proving his insult deliberate (which of course it was) and his trap sprung (ditto, and proving the SM both hot tempered and ignorant of Anuire in doing so - well played both sides) - if Tshalen had then dangled the SM on his hook verbally to extract grovelling apology or some concession (accept my nephew as heir to certain lands, etc) then he'd have been the toast of the town (the minor faux pas being outweighed by the clear diplomatic victory against someone feared/disliked). As it is he threw it away by proving himself mean spirited and vindictive (one can of course be mean and vindictive, you just don't openly state it in public, and in particular you don't scream it out in public during a party when people are having fun - in public only boors lose control).
As a personal recollection of the latter, we told a noble client that they had been ripped off by a conman by 7 figures+, were going to lose their (literally) ancestral home, possibly go bankrupt, etc, their response: how inconvenient - we of course being beneath their station should never be witness to their distress... (personal servants being quasi-furniture are excepted frequently).
Framing his entire lineage and house (albeit some time ago) would in my book qualify as "the first punch"...
Too long ago - if you let people have duels over that then everyone can duel everyone - and the whole point of official duels is to reduce bloodshed amongst the males aged 16-30 (others have grown out of it or are obsolete). That is of course why people simply re-invent the insults as Tshalen did, or simply go somewhere quiet for a grudge match - and let the survivor tell the (100% true of course) story. So the history would let him get away with provoking a duel since it indicates that other people are safe and its personal not just ambition, but he needs to renew the issue by making challenge to the SMs nobility.
Although I agree that it was a dastardly way of dealing with it, it all happened according to an unwritten(?) code of conduct. It was not the Baron who challenged, thus it is the Swordmage who brought conflict to the Sword and Crown...
If Tshalen couldn't have anticipated she would demand he apologise for his words then he'd be ok as the victim, as it is given the SMs touchy status as a noble a severe response was inevitable - and everyone knows that he knows it. Similarly if he'd apologised and she hadn't accepted it (and he wouldn't to say much of a sorry given the situation) then he'd be the victim - and her response would have proven his point beautifully giving him huge kudos, and the GN perfect opportunity while 'accidentally passing by' to request that he be permitted to defend the 'old and wounded man' against the 'vindictive upstart rubbishing an old man for a slip of the tongue caused by ongoing grievance'.
As it is I'm stuck with 'she had to respond - while she did so badly he clearly provoked her, clearly planned to do so, and frankly is just a broken fool bent on on squalid revenge and rather annoyingly, proving his counter through his ineptitude.'
The great thing about unwritten codes is that they can be interpreted in oh so many ways - perfect for RP (as long as when saying 'this is the law' you leave loopholes for others to leap through 'in the words of the great Fred... yes but fred was a heretic, saint anna said...'
the incident with the Green Knight is something completely different though
Well if Tshalen had had a daughter/etc marry the GN so he was a son-in-law, or some similar move he'd have been well ahead - the GN would have had a perfect right to get involved. But he didn't, so, as you put it, it was dastardly. Frankly who next? Will he start another bloody riot over being not supported by other lords? There are no end of grudges to be borne by so prominent a loser, and if Tshalen waives his magic knight every time to not merely beat, but slaughter anyone who doesn't crawl and beg - and likely even then - what defense does anyone have against the rabid fool? There is always a grievance...
As for the GNs various faux pas those were fairly slight - he should have called for the SM to apologise after beating her, but that's minor and anyway she didn't call surrender either; he shouldn't have gloated about planning to enjoy killing her - indeed since she'd fought honourably and from a clear trap he should have given her a face saving way out, but then noble doesn't mean nice, he shouldn't have blatantly only been fighting her to hurt her brother, that's dishonourable, but then considering that a woman or mage being unworthy of treatment with honour is par for the course amongst many nobles...
As for going berserk and slaughtering wholesale, frankly, stopping that from happening is why duels have rules, and the GN wasn't even a participant in this one (Tshalen was along with the SM - GN was just Thsalen's instrument legally I think - it depends on the local laws i.e. Haelyn and Roele, and whether he is accepted as ensorcelled) so the legalities will be interesting. Technically I think that Tshalen gets the legal blame, but there is plenty to spread around...
You could say that it's the Militant Order's fault - the duel was on their grounds, they had the duty to police it... As it was the Chamberlain had to send his own troops in, but then as host of the social bash where the challenge was issued he should have overseen the duel or at least made sure that someone did which he clearly failed to do... it's amazing who you can blame for that one if you put your mind to it... Personally I think the Chamberlain had more to do with it then any court will ever admit, he knows everyone and every grudge - I wonder how the GN and Tshalen met...
The only people to come out of this one well were the Duke of Ghieste (defended the weak against a mad men even though grossly outmatched as a true noble should - damn him), Duke Osoer (intervened to stop someone usurping a duel - not a 2:1 fight as claimed incidentally, that one was over - but an unannounced interruption of a duel before the first was finished which is quite improper), and that's about it. Just about everyone else lost, albeit some more than others.
The swordmage can be argued either way - basically those who dislike her will be happy, the upstart was knocked down and made to grovel, those who support her will be happy, she accepted a duel honourably in anuirean noble fashion instead of some vos vengeance brawl, she fought with honour, she accepted substitution despite clear premeditation by her challenger, she accepted weapons unfavourable to her, she fought courageously, her opponents were clearly mad/bad), those on the fence will probably continue to ignore such barbaric displays and just avoid both sides going forward as social outcasts for the next decade or two.
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What exactly happened with this Tshalen baron? What was he baron of and when did this big setup take place?
OoC:
Neither was he Baron of West Hold nor was there a Barony of West Hold, at the time (to which you are presumably referring) . . . unless RoE I history has been altered in this case.
As far as I know he was just a count at the time. Achiese was ceded to Jaison for some peace arrangement, I believe. It just so happens that Tshalen has doen way better under Osoerdean rule than he did under Ghoerean...
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Such quiet on the forums... :) Is the next "mandatory event" at the S&C the meeting with the chamberlain?
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It seems so... and there is some care to be had before we leap on that one I feel :)
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There sure were a veritable burst of activity around the duel, also in mails. Then... silence... :)
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Blessed silence... man, how Jon/Bjorn have time to read posts and emails I don't know - I could barely do either, although admittedly I ramble on somewhat when I respond...
Besides the question now is, what the heck is the chamberlain going to do with the GN? State that he was ensorcelled and set some minor penance? Say he was simply a victim and let him go? Accuse him of murder and hang him? Sit on it until everyone goes home and do something quiet? I think politics is the order of the day - guilt and innocence are somewhat fluid terms in such situations.
On other matters there are presumably any number of events going on
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It's mostly a question of scanning for player questions or obvious discrepancies in understanding. Other than that we expect you to know what you're doing - and ask us if you need something.
Since so many mails go back and forth, it is a very good idea to include something like "DM response required" in the header. They'll always get first attention before anything else.
Other than that it is the sheer enjoyment of seeing you plot n' play that keeps me interested ;D
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I bet. I was DM once and the sheer deviousness I was exposed to when reading all those player plots fed all my dark aspects for a lifetime :D