Twilightpeaks.net
RoE Development => Regent Guide => : DM B March 26, 2009, 11:30:16 AM
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Realm magic requirements
There are two groups of characters that can utilize realm magic – regents and non-regents.
Regents have it simple; they automatically gain the ability to cast realm spells (they gain the Cast Realm Spell feat as a virtual feat), even if they lack the prerequisite skills and feats. Note that this rule only applies to regents that could potentially learn realm magic AND rule domains that include holdings of the relevant type (temple or source).
Example: A wizard ruling a source type domain would benefit from this rule, but a fighter ruling a law domain (or even a temple domain) would not – obviously!
For non-regents it is more complex. They have to learn it the hard way, sending feats and skill points to master this, the most difficult of magics.
Example: The High Priestess of the ETN wants her paladin/cleric lieutenant to learn how to cast realm magic since she thinks that would be an important asset to her domain. After he has mastered realm magic, the ETN can, for example, prepare realm spell with the bonus lieutenant action.
Note that many (but not all) domain rulers will already have learned realm magic before becoming regents; many will have been the lieutenants of the previous ruler. Such characters retain their existing abilities, and if they should cease being regent they could conceivably still continue to utilize realm magic (as a lieutenant for example).
Optional Rule (Not used in RoE PbeM): If the DM allows characters to be redesigned, you might want to use that option when your character becomes regent to benefit from the virtual Cast Realm Spell feat. If such a character loses his domain, he would have to re-learn how to cast realm spells.
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This is from the new draft; the point is that any new regent is able to utilize realm magic - CONCEPTUALLY HE'S LEANING ON THE EXPERTISE OF HIS DOMAIN
Feedback?
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Wizard learning spells:
Wizards (and other arcane: formulaic spellcasters) learn five 0-level realm spells and three 1st level realm spells upon gaining the Cast Realm Spell feat (even as a virtual feat).
Each time a wizard increases his arcane: formulaic caster level, he can learn two new realm spells of any level available to him. An experienced wizard (caster level above 1st) that gets the Cast Realm Spell feat immediately gains a number of additional realm spells as described above; apply each caster level one after another, checking max spell level for each new caster level.
Wizards can learn any number of additional realm spells, but must spend 1 research domain action per level of the spell (paying the 1 GB cost of the action every time). The DDC for this action is 10 + spell level. If the action fails, it is wasted, and a new action must be attempted, until a number of successes equal to spell level have been achieved.
The above rules assume that the wizard is part of an existing sorcerous domain and has access to a library of magical books and some sort of teacher. If he lacks this, the DM may rule that he doesn’t gain any spells automatically and/or cannot research additional spells.
Example: Jatim is the apprentice of Meggano of the Three Towers. Assuming she has learned how to cast realm spells she’ll be able to gain new spells as she progresses in caster level. Should she be cast out of the Three Towers, the DM might well rule that she’ll need to find another source of magical knowledge before she can learn additional spells.
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This is from the new draft; the point is that any new regent is able to utilize realm magic - CONCEPTUALLY HE'S LEANING ON THE EXPERTISE OF HIS DOMAIN
Feedback?
Very nice! You're solving a possibly annoying situation.
However it does make it easier for realm magic regents to find their heirs, so that's one type of minor agenda that'll be easier ::)
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This is from the new draft; the point is that any new regent is able to utilize realm magic - CONCEPTUALLY HE'S LEANING ON THE EXPERTISE OF HIS DOMAIN
Feedback?
Very nice! You're solving a possibly annoying situation.
However it does make it easier for realm magic regents to find their heirs, so that's one type of minor agenda that'll be easier ::)
But it also removes the all too vague character design issues from the equation. And that is a very, very good thing. Until that is clearly defined and updated, this is much better.
Or so I think. ::)
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There will be a twist I think; so that those who have learned it the ground up will start with more spells to chose from. Not sure yet; all in good time :)
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I think it looks nice.
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Clerics/paladins and spells:
I'm thinking each temple DOMAIN starts with a package of available spells (i.e. the ETN would get defensive/healing spells, but the PSN might get some more weather-related spells) that immediately becomes available to the regent if his level is sufficient. And then the cleric can research more divine spells if he wants to.
I'm also thinking I'll allow spontaneous conversion of realm spells to cure army type spells OR Maybe differentiate that between gods/temples. Not sure yet.
Comments?
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Druids/rangers:
Since they use a combination of sources/temples, I'm thinking a combination of wizard/cleric spell-learning. Some base spells from the domain + some auto-learned spells (but not as many as the wizard) each level.
And of course they can research more primordial spells if they want to.
Comments?
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Sorcerer/bard:
Automatically learns new spells as they go up in level (according to the known spells table). They can swap spells as described in the PHB AND use research actions to swap additional spells if they want to.
And of course sorcerers only prepare slots, not specific spells.
Comments.
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Sounds good in general. I like the idea of prepackaged spells for new temple regents - it'll help keep the style of the domain present. The only thing that occured to me reading is that that, generally, a regent won't need to know hordes of realm spells. At least, the number of realm spells he needs to know is rather less than the number of regular spells an adventurer might need. As such, the standard limitations of spells-known for spontaneous casters are less painful in realm magic, but the ability to simply prepare a slot and cast anything known of that level from it is still quite potent. You might consider tinkering with how many spells known a spontaneous caster gets.
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Sounds good in general. I like the idea of prepackaged spells for new temple regents - it'll help keep the style of the domain present. The only thing that occured to me reading is that that, generally, a regent won't need to know hordes of realm spells. At least, the number of realm spells he needs to know is rather less than the number of regular spells an adventurer might need. As such, the standard limitations of spells-known for spontaneous casters are less painful in realm magic, but the ability to simply prepare a slot and cast anything known of that level from it is still quite potent. You might consider tinkering with how many spells known a spontaneous caster gets.
I'm inclined to agree; its proven very flexible in the past, much more so than the wizard's hypothetical ability to cast ANY realm spell.
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All seems sensible....
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Hmm, 'leaning on the domain' is fine - but what happens when a lieutenant 'leans on the domain' - if they can't, why not? (in RP terms that is) And should the size of the realm impact matters? What stops each of my lieutenants having a single holding level and being a 'regent' able to lean on 'their' domain?
I'd rather have, say, 1 person per court level over 'X' be able to lean on the domain (after proper recognition and promotion) than encourage fragmentation by saying 'only the regent'.
One way to separate the 'domain focused' and the 'domain freeloaders' would be to make realm spells slightly more expensive in RP terms for those leaning on the domain to cast the spell, or say that the maximum spell level can't exceed the court level/2, so a priest regent can always cast the ubiquitous bless the holy land, but for anything more substantial they need to invest personal time and energy in growth.
The problem of recruiting a potential heir is significantly reduced, as usually they will inherit the old regent's bloodline, so they just need the skill points and other feats needed. Still not easy for a wizard, but then they are very rare.
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No; regent gets a freebie. LT is part of domain.
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Clerics/paladins and spells:
I'm thinking each temple DOMAIN starts with a package of available spells (i.e. the ETN would get defensive/healing spells, but the PSN might get some more weather-related spells) that immediately becomes available to the regent if his level is sufficient. And then the cleric can research more divine spells if he wants to.
I'm also thinking I'll allow spontaneous conversion of realm spells to cure army type spells OR Maybe differentiate that between gods/temples. Not sure yet.
Comments?
This is the cool potential to make domains more unique based upon their available realm spells; I like the prospect I think.
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Clerics/paladins and spells:
I'm also thinking I'll allow spontaneous conversion of realm spells to cure army type spells OR Maybe differentiate that between gods/temples. Not sure yet.
Comments?
I would prefer differentiating between gods/temples. This would add some flavor to the game, IMHO.
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Clerics/paladins and spells:
I'm also thinking I'll allow spontaneous conversion of realm spells to cure army type spells OR Maybe differentiate that between gods/temples. Not sure yet.
Comments?
I would prefer differentiating between gods/temples. This would add some flavor to the game, IMHO.
The problem is that the cleric realm sepll domain list is pretty limited, and it would be difficult to make a significant enough of a difference, IMO.
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Sorcerer/bard:
Automatically learns new spells as they go up in level (according to the known spells table). They can swap spells as described in the PHB AND use research actions to swap additional spells if they want to.
And of course sorcerers only prepare slots, not specific spells.
Comments.
Possible fix; sorcerers will not be able to utilize prepare realm spell as a realm action.
Anyway; remember that RP/GB is the real limiting factor when it comes to realm spells.
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Uh... ouch. I would personally much rather loose a few spell slots than loose the ability to prepare multiple spell slots at the same time.
Alternative: Drop the whole ability of sorcerers to prepare spell slots - It is very flexible and perhaps a bit overpowered. Again, loosing the ability to prepare multiple spell slots would cripple sorcerers, loosing the ability to prepare open slots... not so much.
Keep in mind the D&D methodology here - Sorcerers are identified by small spell selection and the ability to cast lots of spells... Removing the ability to prepare multiple spell slots would invalidate the last part.
A suggestion: Why have a distinction between sorcerous and wizardly Realm magic at all? It is clearly established that casting realm magic takes research and training - something sorcerers otherwise can ignore. Just make it all Arcane Realm Magic and let both Wizards and Sorcerers use the same rules - the ones the wizards use now.
EDIT: Removed typo... "Crupple" indeed.
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With my limited knowledge of RoE it sounds as an convinient fix; less rules to navigate between also which is by itself nice from my point of view :)
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Given the relatively small number of realm spells, the difference between wizard and sorcerer is fairly slim anyway at domain level so 1 set to rule them all sounds best.
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We should make a ring.
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we should make many rings. But I should have the one to rule them all ^_^
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OMG - Can we please restrict all the OOC chatter to the OOC board? The threads get too cluttered otherwise.
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Closed due to useless comments.
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UPDATED version of Chapter 8 uploaded for review.
Its called...Chapter 8.doc
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Clarification:
Temples as ley networks; the provinces traced through must have temple holdings of lvl 1 or higher (but the province from which the spell is cast can be lvl 0)
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Finally had time to look through the updated realm magic rules. Some comments:
- For realm spell research, a failed action does not cancel the previously successful actions? And once a number of actions is equal to spell level, it is gained automatically?
- I've never been too big a fan of the large number of feats required for realm magic, but with the overall reduction in characters' levels, would it be an option to reduce this to 3 feats or something along those lines? Or alternatively remove the Cast Realm Magic feat, and let characters who can cast ritual magic and have access to holdings are sufficient.
- Are there any bonuses to the Research action to learn realm spells, or is taking 10 just wasted?
- Are there any proposed spell lists for various gods/domains?
More later. And feel free to combine this with posting with the closed thread.
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Finally had time to look through the updated realm magic rules. Some comments:
- For realm spell research, a failed action does not cancel the previously successful actions? And once a number of actions is equal to spell level, it is gained automatically?
More later. And feel free to combine this with posting with the closed thread.
One successful action/spell level is required and then you've learned the spell (sort of like construction). You can fail as many times as you want in between.
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From the revised Chapter 8:
Target or targets
Some spells, such as dominate realm, have a target or targets. You cast these spells directly on the target. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically chose that target.
The need to be able to see (or touch) all targets of Realm Spells is quite contrary to the spirit of most spells that have a range of 'Long'. Would it be more reasonable to expand this to 'You must be able to see, touch or know the location of the target,...'? A regent would know the location of a province, hence be able to cast spells with a Long range without seeing the province. Similarly if one know the location of a unit (in a castle or other garrison) one could affect them from afar, but if they were out in the field one would have to locate them (by sight or other means) for the spell to work.
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Condition: The target of the spell is some sort of condition that applies to an asset, holding or province (such as prosperity, stability, or ruler). Example: chains of loyalty.
Shouldn't the target for these spells be Asset, Holding and Province respectively? The notion that a spell targets a particular condition rather than the 'object' itself feels a bit arbitrary. It's a bit like regular spells targeting HitPoints, rather than a character.