Twilightpeaks.net
RoE Development => Regent Guide => : X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) March 22, 2009, 11:36:11 PM
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If I simply decide to stop paying maintenance of fortifications they start to degrade yes? But that means I save the money?
So if I simply put 0 for fortifications will I pay so if I have the GB needed?
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If you do not pay for upkeep, the respective fortification will degrade.. There is no reason why you should be obliged to pay.
So I guess you save the money, unless I did not understand correctly.
Just my 2 coppers worth.
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On the other hand I do a wage war action anyway so I can simply put them on reserve reducing cost to being real low
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If you place the fortification in Reserve, it costs half normal maintenance, starting next turn.
And it takes a full turn to turn back on, but the fort will not degrade while in reserve.
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Changing Stats is immediate, as far as I know.
When a unit is placed from reserve to something other than that, it simply take a turn for that change to occur, though the change is immediate (and you must pay for the status change).
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Changing Stats is immediate, as far as I know.
When a unit is placed from reserve to something other than that, it simply take a turn for that change to occur, though the change is immediate (and you must pay for the status change).
So the upkeep for a unit going from Garrison to Reserve, is Reserve in the turn it gets the order to go into reserve?
But if the order is not active until the end of the turn, that can mean the unit is avilable to fight in defense, in the turn it received the orders to go home.
Thats why I thought reserve status and upkeep were delayed together, so that the turn you request a unit to come back from reserve, you only pay reserve upkeep there.
As for the cost of giving the order, Wage War removes that cost, yes?
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Change Status [Military; Court, Free]
You order one or more units, ships or fortifications to either resume active duty, go to garrison duty, or to step down to the reserve.
Type: Military – Military actions are normally court actions, except when used in conjunction with wage war in which case they are free actions.
Each use of the action allows you to change the status of all units, ships and fortifications within a single province.
Cost: While the action itself has no cost, changing status will immediately change the upkeep cost of affected units/ships/ fortifications.
Difficulty: DDC 5.
Modifiers: Court; Stability.
Influence: Yes – You can use influence on change status actions.
Restrictions: You may take 10, but you may not take 20 on change status actions.
Law holdings count as ‘same holding’ for the purpose of military actions.
Check: You can raise or lower the status of an army unit, fortification or navy unit between active, garrison or reserve status.
Changing between active and garrison status is immediate.
Change to/from reserve status is in effect at the end of the turn (units placed on reserve are NOT available for other activities during the turn).
Special: Units that are placed on reserve status must make a Morale check DC 20 or lose 1 XP.
The action in itself costs nothing just the use of a court action.
The unit can do nothing else the turn if put in reserve... but yes the change to upkeep is instant.
The turn you request your unit to come back to active you pay active upkeep.
Well... that is how I read it atleast
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Gray is correct.
The turn you change status is the turn upkeep will be reduced/increased.
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Hi guys, actually I am right. Unless this example from the Regent Guide is wrong or the rule has been changed:
Example: With the war over by Winter 1525 HC, the Baroness cannot afford to leave her two knights units even on garrison status. She uses change unit status to put them on reserve duty. The knights gain reserve status at the end of the turn (so the Baroness must pay active upkeep for the unit on the Winter turn) and are unavailable for other activities during that turn.
Example: On a subsequent turn, Roesone is attacked and the Baroness needs all the men she can get. She uses change unit status to put recall the knights to active duty. However, they won’t be ready for use until the end of the turn, so that Baroness will have to make do with her other forces until then. The Baroness bitterly regrets her decision, and once again it will be up to the levy to repel the invaders. The only good news is that she won’t have to pay active upkeep for the knights unit next turn…but by then the war might well be over…
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Well well, looks like I've done it wrong all through RoE I then ::)
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It does require a little more foresight this way, as your savings will not begin until the next turn.
Also, Bjørn is open to discussing this, but then someone should make a topic in the Regent Guide forum and take it from there.
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However, this is the cost section of change status:
Cost: While the action itself has no cost, changing status will immediately change the upkeep cost of affected units/ships/ fortifications.
So looks like we're right. ;)
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However, this is the cost section of change status:
Cost: While the action itself has no cost, changing status will immediately change the upkeep cost of affected units/ships/ fortifications.
So looks like we're right. ;)
No! :D
That line is from the summary of Change Status on page 85, and its clear that it from A to G and G to A are immediate, as is described in more detail on page 121 where the quote is from.
I'll refer to previous rulings that summaries step aside for the detailed descriptions! (Well, to be accurate, the tables move for the detailed description, but there are parallels here)
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The summary just means that the actual status doesn't change before the end of turn, whereas the cost section underlines that you change cost immediately by doing so. That is how we played it in RoE I (well I did - and Bjørn never complained about it over the years).
Which means: A garrisoned unit changing status to active can't act like an active unit the same turn, but it's upkeep cost is increased immediately.
My opinion is this rule is screwed. Change status should take a month or two (4-8 war moves), making it possible to use the unit on active status for some of the turn in question. Upkeep change is immediate.
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Change between active/garrison is immediate (same turn, the change conceptually takes a little time, 1 month or so); you enter the Change Status action into your DO, alter the status in the army list at the same time, and start paying the new upkeep during that same turn. This should not be problematic.
Change to/from reserve takes a little longer (1 full turn, 3 months). Enter this into your DO, but don't change the status in the army list (the new status in effect at the end of the turn/start of the new turn), and thus no change in upkeep. The unit will be available for action on the following turn (either garrison or active, as you specified). That's how the rule is written and that's what the examples illustrate.
HOWEVER, with regards to the to/from reserve stuff; it might perhaps be easier to change that rule, so that you actually do change status on the turn you take the action (unit still won't be able to do anything) and thus change upkeep. The net result would be the same, but you'd save the money on the turn a unit goes into reserve and spend more on the turn its recalled to service.
Perhaps that option is both easier to track AND more conceptually sound? Any input?
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So even if my forftifications go to reserve this DO it still cost me as if they are on Garrison this season?
If above is correct I would like to change my DO and simply stop paying for those fortifications for good. I assumed I could start them on reserve first DO and was corrected to pay for garrison. I have allready overspent my fortification budget; I need to cut the saleries for those fat garrisons ;D
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Ah, I overlooked the difference between reserve and G/A. Never used reserve m'self, never saw the point (i.e. always had enough money).
It would be nice if it was possible to keep everything within one DO and not have to keep tabs on minor matters like these between DO's.
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So even if my forftifications go to reserve this DO it still cost me as if they are on Garrison this season?
If above is correct I would like to change my DO and simply stop paying for those fortifications for good. I assumed I could start them on reserve first DO and was corrected to pay for garrison. I have allready overspent my fortification budget; I need to cut the saleries for those fat garrisons ;D
Do note that fortified holdings protect you against contest and invasion. To get rid of your forts completely won't be popular within the IHH ranks. At least not the proud military cadre - others might think it about bloody time.
Maybe reduce your expenses elsewhere? Forts don't cost that much...
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Change between active/garrison is immediate (same turn, the change conceptually takes a little time, 1 month or so); you enter the Change Status action into your DO, alter the status in the army list at the same time, and start paying the new upkeep during that same turn. This should not be problematic.
Change to/from reserve takes a little longer (1 full turn, 3 months). Enter this into your DO, but don't change the status in the army list (the new status in effect at the end of the turn/start of the new turn), and thus no change in upkeep. The unit will be available for action on the following turn (either garrison or active, as you specified). That's how the rule is written and that's what the examples illustrate.
HOWEVER, with regards to the to/from reserve stuff; it might perhaps be easier to change that rule, so that you actually do change status on the turn you take the action (unit still won't be able to do anything) and thus change upkeep. The net result would be the same, but you'd save the money on the turn a unit goes into reserve and spend more on the turn its recalled to service.
Perhaps that option is both easier to track AND more conceptually sound? Any input?
I would like to see it changed... It would become a way to immediately cut some costs, instead of a strategic decision.
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Effective immediately:
Rules change - Going to/from reserve you immediately (same turn) start paying upkeep for the new status (so basically you pay less on the turn they go INTO reserve, and more when they go out of reserve).
I also believe this will be easier to track in the DOs.
RG will be updated.
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Effective immediately:
Rules change - Going to/from reserve you immediately (same turn) start paying upkeep for the new status (so basically you pay less on the turn they go INTO reserve, and more when they go out of reserve).
I also believe this will be easier to track in the DOs.
RG will be updated.
Wonderful :)
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I aim to please :)
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Just to be clear, units/forts still take time to actually get out of reserve, only the upkeep change is instantaneous under this rule change?
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Just to be clear, units/forts still take time to actually get out of reserve, only the upkeep change is instantaneous under this rule change?
Yes; time use is not altered - it stays at 1 turn.
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Hmmmm, interesting....
E2A
Apologies for the rubbish post but got distracted by bug fixes on a website I was doing at the same time. Will post my more meaningful and cogent thoughts tonight.
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Hmmmm, interesting....
Perhaps THE least interesting post so far?
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Do note that fortified holdings protect you against contest and invasion. To get rid of your forts completely won't be popular within the IHH ranks. At least not the proud military cadre - others might think it about bloody time.
Maybe reduce your expenses elsewhere? Forts don't cost that much...
I'm not sure if you're correct there Jon. I think fortifications only protect against physical attack (for instance pillage/raze actions done by military units), and not against contest actions. From the regent guide:
"Fortified holdings make a single holding resistant to attack and destruction. They also protect the entire province to a lesser degree; a fort mainly protects the province level and the holding to which it is attached.
Trade and source holdings cannot be fortified, nor do they gain any benefit from having other fortified holdings in the same province."
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Right you are