Twilightpeaks.net
RoE Development => Regent Guide => : DM B January 21, 2011, 12:52:50 PM
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After working a lot on the P&H and finding the 'perfect' province levels for various realms, terrains and climates I've come to the conclusion that mages are unduly hampered.
Therefore I'm contemplating a Minimum Source Level rule:
Unless otherwise stated the minimum magic potential of a province will be 1 (instead of 0 as it is today).
Various specials which give a min source level would also be upgraded by 1 lvl if this rule is implemented.
Comments?
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The reasoning behind this rule: There is always SOME magic potential left in a province, even if heavily settled.
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I like this idea. I wonder though if it would be beneifical to have minimum source level set by terrain type instead of a more global minimum.
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I like this idea. I wonder though if it would be beneifical to have minimum source level set by terrain type instead of a more global minimum.
Doesn't the terrain type set a sort of limit in itself? Marshes aren't easy to build in, so most people might avoid it for more favourable real estate, probably leaving the minimum source level higher than 1.
I like the concept that there's always something left, even if you have to dig deep under a city to find it.
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In plainy Anuire with lots of high level provinces there will be lots of lvl 0 sources, plus some high-level sources at the fringes. Doesn't feel quite right.
Alan: That's a decent idea, but as Thorstean says - if its a rugged terrain this will sort of regulate itself. Mostly this is a problem for nice coastal, river, hot temperate plains...
Playing with the numbers a bit - Aerenwe for example is effects, gaining lvl 1 source for its provinces. Same with Avanil.
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Doesn't the terrain type set a sort of limit in itself? Marshes aren't easy to build in, so most people might avoid it for more favourable real estate, probably leaving the minimum source level higher than 1.
I like the concept that there's always something left, even if you have to dig deep under a city to find it.
I agree with you and Bjorn. Indirectly this does set the minimum source level, but I was, think more about provinces that have significant secondary terrains and the like.
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Alan: I've looked at places like Coeranys; and your point is even more valid there. It seems there should be instances where min level is set to 2 for example.
I must explore this further.
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How about setting the minimum to 1/3 of the maximum magic potential?
Will see you with a remainder between 1 and 3 in each province.
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I'm a newbie to the game and haven't had time to get familiar with the wider setting. However, I did recently go through an exercise of checking my sources against the P&H to make sure they were accurate so have data rather handy.
As someone whose source holdings are almost exclusively coastal I found the following:
* about one third of my holdings are level zero
* half are level zero or level one
* almost half are level 3+
* Aneira could (with the GB and free actions) get about 20% of her holdings up to level 5 (higher in two instances).
So I have the basis for a reasonable domain size (meaning RP collection up to my bloodline score) with access to more than one source 5+. Well placed ley lines then give Aneira access to what I consider to be powerful sources relative to her level. If province levels do not increase quickly then the Sea Witch is probably OK in the short to medium term. However, if province growth occurs on a semi-frequent basis in her domain, then that could have a marked effect.
So at a game stat level I am pretty happy with how things are currently (especially compared to how poorly placed Hermedhie usually is in vanilla BR). I don't, accordingly, see this through the lens of wanting to ensure my character has nice source holdings at her disposal.
At a conceptual level I like the suggestion. Even in highly settled areas natural forces or energies still exist. The sun rising in the morning and awakening all the cultivated crop plants could produce a 'regular' energy flow or source that could be tapped into. Coastal provinces all have a coastline meaning there are tidal energies or the energy released by crashing waves to tap into. Provinces bordering rivers likewise have an energy source to utilise (a bit like a hydro dam really). Those natural energy sources will exist regardless of the province level, so the idea there is always something there makes some sense and is appealing.
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How about setting the minimum to 1/3 of the maximum magic potential?
Will see you with a remainder between 1 and 3 in each province.
Relatively sweet; except that most provinces have 6+ base magic potential...
But a simple universal rule is the way to go.
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I'm a newbie to the game and haven't had time to get familiar with the wider setting. However, I did recently go through an exercise of checking my sources against the P&H to make sure they were accurate so have data rather handy.
As someone whose source holdings are almost exclusively coastal I found the following:
* about one third of my holdings are level zero
* half are level zero or level one
* almost half are level 3+
* Aneira could (with the GB and free actions) get about 20% of her holdings up to level 5 (higher in two instances).
So I have the basis for a reasonable domain size (meaning RP collection up to my bloodline score) with access to more than one source 5+. Well placed ley lines then give Aneira access to what I consider to be powerful sources relative to her level. If province levels do not increase quickly then the Sea Witch is probably OK in the short to medium term. However, if province growth occurs on a semi-frequent basis in her domain, then that could have a marked effect.
So at a game stat level I am pretty happy with how things are currently (especially compared to how poorly placed Hermedhie usually is in vanilla BR). I don't, accordingly, see this through the lens of wanting to ensure my character has nice source holdings at her disposal.
At a conceptual level I like the suggestion. Even in highly settled areas natural forces or energies still exist. The sun rising in the morning and awakening all the cultivated crop plants could produce a 'regular' energy flow or source that could be tapped into. Coastal provinces all have a coastline meaning there are tidal energies or the energy released by crashing waves to tap into. Provinces bordering rivers likewise have an energy source to utilise (a bit like a hydro dam really). Those natural energy sources will exist regardless of the province level, so the idea there is always something there makes some sense and is appealing.
Province growth happens VERY rarely except for very low-level provinces in desirable areas. So usually not a problem.
If min source was = 1 then mage would have the ability to cast weak realm magic without needing expensive ley lines.
Might even make it worthwhile to battle over such sources.
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How about setting the minimum to 1/3 of the maximum magic potential?
Will see you with a remainder between 1 and 3 in each province.
Relatively sweet; except that most provinces have 6+ base magic potential...
But a simple universal rule is the way to go.
In those rare moments, where you think look/feel and whatnot require it, you can dditional effects like "Magic Poor -1 MinSP", etc. to help.
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How about setting the minimum to 1/3 of the maximum magic potential?
Will see you with a remainder between 1 and 3 in each province.
Relatively sweet; except that most provinces have 6+ base magic potential...
But a simple universal rule is the way to go.
Maybe just make it a table:
base potential 1-6 = min 1
base potential 7-8 = min 2
base potential 9+ = min 3
Means that most fully developed provinces are a 1, 2 for some that had high potential in the past and 3 for the rare ones that are carved out of ancient forests and the like.
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Setting the minimum any higher than 1 wouldn't that mean ALOT more regency becoming available to mages?
Even at a minimum of lvl 1 I'd squeal like a girl if I was a Source domain.
But I like the basic idea. It doesn't make sense that civilization, at the ROE level, completely destroys magic. - Of course, one could argue that the mebheighl is warped by the people living there, and feed into the Temples magical power as ordered, structured and aligned energy.
Sort of a division between Arcane and Divine potential pr. province. - But still, Arcane should not be reduced to 0 in any event, I agree on that.
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Hmmm, maybe invent a building that can increase minimum Source? - A civilized way to "build" a Source.
So if the rule increases the minimum to 1, then a building can increase That to 2 and a larger one to 3 but no higher. - These virtual Source levels must be Ruled just like other Sources and the buildings maintained and can be fought over. Probably have to be placed in awkward places too.
But it would make certain that any realm has access to at least level 3 arcane realm magic, if willing to make the effort.
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Setting the minimum any higher than 1 wouldn't that mean ALOT more regency becoming available to mages?
Even at a minimum of lvl 1 I'd squeal like a girl if I was a Source domain.
Well, we're still capped by our bloodline score. I don't know about the other mages but ruling source holdings doesn't make too much difference to my character as my total holding levels are pretty close to my bloodline score already. Decisions to rule holdings will probably be more strategic than a simple desire to have more holdings.
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How about setting the minimum to 1/3 of the maximum magic potential?
Will see you with a remainder between 1 and 3 in each province.
Relatively sweet; except that most provinces have 6+ base magic potential...
But a simple universal rule is the way to go.
Maybe just make it a table:
base potential 1-6 = min 1
base potential 7-8 = min 2
base potential 9+ = min 3
Means that most fully developed provinces are a 1, 2 for some that had high potential in the past and 3 for the rare ones that are carved out of ancient forests and the like.
And sold to the fellow in the CJS robes!
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Setting the minimum any higher than 1 wouldn't that mean ALOT more regency becoming available to mages?
Even at a minimum of lvl 1 I'd squeal like a girl if I was a Source domain.
But I like the basic idea. It doesn't make sense that civilization, at the ROE level, completely destroys magic. - Of course, one could argue that the mebheighl is warped by the people living there, and feed into the Temples magical power as ordered, structured and aligned energy.
Sort of a division between Arcane and Divine potential pr. province. - But still, Arcane should not be reduced to 0 in any event, I agree on that.
Currently they are totally crippled by increasing province levels all over the board. Maybe I wasn't clear about it, but this rule is to compensate for the overall higher province levels.
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So, when does this take effect?
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I mean, I know it takes effect when announced. But do you have a plan for when you will be announcing it?
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After reviewing all of the Heartlands, Eastern Marches & South Coast, I have come to the following conclusions:
1. Generally speaking, most populated realms gain between 6-12 additional source levels.
2. More sparsely populated realms gain considerably less. Excluding the 1 province realms, Coeranys gains only 2 source levels (in the capital), Tournen gains 3 levels, Tornilien gains 2, etc.
This rule does seem to 'favor' larger realms ATM or rather it will somewhat favor their affliated magi (if they have one), since we are adding around the magnitude of 50-75 source levels overall to all of Anuire, the change isn't actually that material overall, but it will give Wizzies a little more bite and it could also benefit some of the temples that can wield sources.
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After reviewing all of the Heartlands, Eastern Marches & South Coast, I have come to the following conclusions:
1. Generally speaking, most populated realms gain between 6-12 additional source levels.
2. More sparsely populated realms gain considerably less. Excluding the 1 province realms, Coeranys gains only 2 source levels (in the capital), Tournen gains 3 levels, Tornilien gains 2, etc.
This rule does seem to 'favor' larger realms ATM or rather it will somewhat favor their affliated magi (if they have one), since we are adding around the magnitude of 50-75 source levels overall to all of Anuire, the change isn't actually that material overall, but it will give Wizzies a little more bite and it could also benefit some of the temples that can wield sources.
Isn't that the intention though? Less densely populated realms won't hit the floor anyway so won't gain from it, so the big winners would inevitably be those who have currently populated the source down to nil. The question is whether any of the more sprawling wizard realms might need to be compacted as presumably they were designed with some sort of balance against each other. The interesting question is whether this will encourage 'apprentice realms' if the existing mage realms are left as is, I think that the cost issue and rarity of mages will suggest not, but it would be an interesting development.
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Isn't that the intention though? Less densely populated realms won't hit the floor anyway so won't gain from it, so the big winners would inevitably be those who have currently populated the source down to nil. The question is whether any of the more sprawling wizard realms might need to be compacted as presumably they were designed with some sort of balance against each other. The interesting question is whether this will encourage 'apprentice realms' if the existing mage realms are left as is, I think that the cost issue and rarity of mages will suggest not, but it would be an interesting development.
Absolutely, I should have been more explicit. The rule does do what it was intended to do: up the source levels available in densely populated Anurie.
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Although it has no direct influence on myself it does make sense and seems an appropriate response to the province growth occurring, in order to keep a whole section of regent types "in the game."
It has the Delvy Seal of Approval.
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One matter that must be addressed:
River = source 6
Coast = source 7
Both were implemented to make sure those coast/river plains province didn't suffer unduly with RoE's increased province levels.
But with the MinSource rule that adds a complication; any coast would now have MinSource 2. Not what was intended. So it would seem that this is a necessary adjustment:
River = source 6
Coast = source 6
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Seems good to me. This isn't a particularly large change. Most of the coastal provinces will gain levels due to the min. source rule anyways.
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I can't see any significant downside. About the only complaint might be from someone who had deliberately ruled up a province to deprive a hostile mage of sources, but in practice I can't see that as a viable tactic under ROE rules.
It does of course mean that protecting 'the last remnants of the Fell in the province' becomes key - a nice little diplomatic titbit for a mage to be granted as a favour, etc.
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I can't see any significant downside. About the only complaint might be from someone who had deliberately ruled up a province to deprive a hostile mage of sources, but in practice I can't see that as a viable tactic under ROE rules.
That was never intended as an option in RoE anyway.