Twilightpeaks.net
TP.net => The Great Beyond (OOC) => : X-DM Jon December 22, 2010, 11:32:01 PM
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Hi guys, I've decided to make an offical change.
I haven't really been doing much of anything in this game for a while, so I thought I might as well make it official. I'm no longer considering myself co-DM, more like a co-co DM (pronounced cocoa).
Feel free to keep cc'ing all mails to me, if nothing else my mailbox has just about endless storage, so it'll be could as a backup place for anything.
And I expect I'll be assisting Bjørn with the running of NPC realms or PC realms waiting for a player, like the IHH. So basically I'll be doing what I've been doing for the last couple of months.
I won't become a player, because I simply know too much about all of your plans :)
So, the post of co-DM is open if anyone is interested. Creating stories from the other side of the fence and what have you ;)
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Nevermind, I'm back on as always. Sifting through e-mail... Keep'em coming my way.
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DAMN! I'm now 23 emails away from having sifted through everything since september. That's around 800 mails you eloquent bastards have thrown our way ;)
Keep'em coming!
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DAMN! I'm now 23 emails away from having sifted through everything since september. That's around 800 mails you eloquent bastards have thrown our way ;)
Keep'em coming!
good, I'm waiting for some replies :-)
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DAMN! I'm now 23 emails away from having sifted through everything since september. That's around 800 mails you eloquent bastards have thrown our way ;)
Keep'em coming!
good, I'm waiting for some replies :-)
Resend the ones you're waiting for (unless I've already asked)
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Hehe, so many of those must be mine... :-)
You just got another one. Long.
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Quite a few indeed :)
And yes, I've received your mail... Quite the dissertation on frustration.
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Indeed!
If I suffered this young pup to proceed as always, then forever the old secrets and bad mercenary mindset would keep dragging us into the dust.
Let us reduce it all to dust and see if not life and hope spring green to grow from the remains!
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That... Or listen to your wife ::)
Forgiveness is a hard thing... They hung Jesus on a cross for advocating it. I know it from personal experience (the hardness of forgiveness, not crucifiction :))
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So are you answering all NPC emails Jon?
Cause I have one outstanding.
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Resend it please. I'll answer what I can and forward the rest to Bjørn as a reminder. With the deluge usually coming in when it gets hot, some slip through the cracks.
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Resent. I'm fairly sure you'll be able to reply to it. It's background chatter at the moment.
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That... Or listen to your wife ::)
Forgiveness is a hard thing... They hung Jesus on a cross for advocating it. I know it from personal experience (the hardness of forgiveness, not crucifiction :))
Its not about forgiveness. Its about the LPA declaring that they will continue their sins of the past in the future. - They HAD forgiveness. They kept insisting we start talking about paying for blessings although Rashid was trying so hard not to open that issue.
I just knew they were going to be greedy bastards as usual. At the end of the day, Elinie does not need their blessings to come from LPA.
Elinie needs a temple that feels Elinie is its HOME and who will work to improve that home regardless of other factors.
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That... Or listen to your wife ::)
Forgiveness is a hard thing... They hung Jesus on a cross for advocating it. I know it from personal experience (the hardness of forgiveness, not crucifiction :))
Its not about forgiveness. Its about the LPA declaring that they will continue their sins of the past in the future. - They HAD forgiveness. They kept insisting we start talking about paying for blessings although Rashid was trying so hard not to open that issue.
I just knew they were going to be greedy bastards as usual. At the end of the day, Elinie does not need their blessings to come from LPA.
Elinie needs a temple that feels Elinie is its HOME and who will work to improve that home regardless of other factors.
There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.
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Political advantage and must are or should be in play here.
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Are we back to the old discussion of paying for blessings? :-D
Makes me miss the good old times when Alan (IHH) and me (Roesone) had our written slug-fights.
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Ah yes, the endless blessed waltz ;D
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Political advantage and must are or should be in play here.
Well then, why do you think that they aren't?
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I'll bite my tongue and let us take that out in IC.
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That... Or listen to your wife ::)
Forgiveness is a hard thing... They hung Jesus on a cross for advocating it. I know it from personal experience (the hardness of forgiveness, not crucifiction :))
Its not about forgiveness. Its about the LPA declaring that they will continue their sins of the past in the future. - They HAD forgiveness. They kept insisting we start talking about paying for blessings although Rashid was trying so hard not to open that issue.
I just knew they were going to be greedy bastards as usual. At the end of the day, Elinie does not need their blessings to come from LPA.
Elinie needs a temple that feels Elinie is its HOME and who will work to improve that home regardless of other factors.
There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.
Love it! :-*
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There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.
The key is to make the temple understand that they MUST :P
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There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.
The key is to make the temple understand that they MUST :P
Yeah yeah, yall wanna have your cake and eat it too :)
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It's about balance - the temple can't afford to bless for free in most areas, and since everyone in the province benefits some sort of contribution makes a lot of sense. The real question is actually who should contribute - ideally everyone would do so but often only the province ruler is asked.
The contribution should take into account the other trade-offs, how grasping/generous the parties are, etc. The Aegis routinely blesses 'for free' - but generally gets pay-back in non-financial terms like the right to raise/move troops, advantage/hardness, diplomatic support, etc.
In this case though the LPA is on its knees with a sword at it's throat - it's rebellion looks to have failed so a good deal is not going to be on the cards...
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Come one come all! Blessings on sale from the Haelyn's Aegis! ;D
How quaint that a capitalistic market would find it's way into the game at the point of faith. I'm afraid people forget the fact that your ruler isn't exactly able to sit down and crunch the numbers that a blessing will give him. It's a thing of faith! People should rather consider how much they want that bountiful deal with their temple where sheep multiply and frolic happily in the green everafter...
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But for the record. Haelyn's Aegis is absolutely an anomaly. All domains pay for receiving blessings of the realm, just as the christian received a tenth of all income through a millenia - more or less. To think you can get away without paying, is rather revolutionary... At least in the Anuirean mindset.
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Dear Jon, please note carefully who is stating that blessing can be "free" or paid for by other kinds of services.
It happens to be the main competitor to LPA.
Making it QUITE relevant what kind of deal LPA tries to offer, especially when... blah blah... See the IC, but keep the point in mind. If the LPA has to drop their excommunication and does NOT gain a new treaty, then they are just a temple in Elinie.
And thats all it takes for them to loose their footing and slowly spiral into obscurity as HA eats them, encouraged by Rashid.
Thats the SLOW death.
The rebellion is quicker and more messy.
- And its actually not been up that Rashid is against paying. It the idea that LPA has to be paid for improving their own stomping grounds. LPA will apparently also complain about agitating now and then, if not Paid for it.
Its just not going to fly. Not in the face of injustice added on top.
And now you got me ooc ranting anyway. /leaving this thread.
P.S. you Can calculate realm expenses fairly accurately, or the realm budget would constantly be overspending which is game technically impossible... Thus it infers intricate economic overview.
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Well ranting is for the OoC :)
Anyway, you should read what I wrote OoC in the diplomacy mail session...
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But for the record. Haelyn's Aegis is absolutely an anomaly. All domains pay for receiving blessings of the realm, just as the christian received a tenth of all income through a millenia - more or less. To think you can get away without paying, is rather revolutionary... At least in the Anuirean mindset.
I think there are two different points to this. The first would be what you consider 'paying' in this case. While playing as the OIT, the domain cast Bless Land pretty much all the time without any direct payment as seen by the other temples. Instead there were other ties between the temple and the landed regents.
Secondly I think the tenth your referring to is a large part of the regular income from temple holdings. The direct donations from regents in 'payment' for realm magic is something of a different exchange.
In addition I think the current 'standard' of paying for temples to cast Bless Land is merely a reflection of the current paradigm and culture. Over the 1500 years of history I can imagine there have been periods when the temples have been falling over each other to cast such spells, either out of piety or through the perceived prestige in doing so. Just because the current political climate is a but mercenary at best doesn't mean there have been quite different mentalities previously.
To finish of my ramblings, I think the key here is to ensure that the temples want to cast these spells, rather than feel they must. "Former Empire, slightly worn out, seeking pious temple regents to herald a new golden age of church politics" Enough ramblings from. Time to top up the wine and get going on the roast.
E
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But for the record. Haelyn's Aegis is absolutely an anomaly. All domains pay for receiving blessings of the realm, just as the christian received a tenth of all income through a millenia - more or less. To think you can get away without paying, is rather revolutionary... At least in the Anuirean mindset.
I think there are two different points to this. The first would be what you consider 'paying' in this case. While playing as the OIT, the domain cast Bless Land pretty much all the time without any direct payment as seen by the other temples. Instead there were other ties between the temple and the landed regents.
Secondly I think the tenth your referring to is a large part of the regular income from temple holdings. The direct donations from regents in 'payment' for realm magic is something of a different exchange.
In addition I think the current 'standard' of paying for temples to cast Bless Land is merely a reflection of the current paradigm and culture. Over the 1500 years of history I can imagine there have been periods when the temples have been falling over each other to cast such spells, either out of piety or through the perceived prestige in doing so. Just because the current political climate is a but mercenary at best doesn't mean there have been quite different mentalities previously.
To finish of my ramblings, I think the key here is to ensure that the temples want to cast these spells, rather than feel they must. "Former Empire, slightly worn out, seeking pious temple regents to herald a new golden age of church politics" Enough ramblings from. Time to top up the wine and get going on the roast.
E
Ah yes, the OIT. They had the right to law holdings in Diemed in return for all they did :)
Apart from that I quite agree on your last point, wanting is the point. I wanted to cast spells and agitate to keep in the good graces of Duke Diem, so I could count on his (very) strong support if needed.
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Anyone who hasn't been slammed with a demand of 500gb from the party their currently engaged in diplomacy with (and who burned down their capital, scattered their armies and killed their father), has no right to complain in my book. Just saying :P
Personally I can understand the whole "bless for free" notion that rulers may have - especially if you leave out the numbers and everything becomes more intangible. I also things it stems from said rulers having little idea of, what it costs as a temple to do regularly, or assuming that said temples have more resources than they have.
That said no ruler wants to appear underfoot to their temple, and I sure as hell won't make any "donations" (it goes down a LOT easier like that, Temples. Just saying), if I can get stuff for free.
Oh, and the RCS blessed Ilien for free. Just as they Shadowwarded it at no cost to the province ruler. Up until *Issues* (tm) started down there. Not all temples expect anything in return (or their rulers are just too modest to ask)... hmm thinking on that, perhaps I should invite the RCS to stay in Avanil, no? :D
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The question for temples (at least for ETN) is not really whether to bless or not, rather where to bless. To withhold the gifts and miracles of the respective deity from the believers would feel somewhat inappropriate and should be self-destructive in a long run. After all, who would worship a deity that doesn't manifest itself, when there are others that do?
On the other hand, when temples get paid for bless in gold, it covers only part of their expenses. They still expend actions and RPs for it. So when landed regents pay for bless, it is not really for the work done. Rather it is for privilege that their lands are the ones chosen by the god/goddess :)
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The question for temples (at least for ETN) is not really whether to bless or not, rather where to bless. To withhold the gifts and miracles of the respective deity from the believers would feel somewhat inappropriate and should be self-destructive in a long run. After all, who would worship a deity that doesn't manifest itself, when there are others that do?
On the other hand, when temples get paid for bless in gold, it covers only part of their expenses. They still expend actions and RPs for it. So when landed regents pay for bless, it is not really for the work done. Rather it is for privilege that their lands are the ones chosen by the god/goddess :)
I believe we have a winner ;D
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The question for temples (at least for ETN) is not really whether to bless or not, rather where to bless. To withhold the gifts and miracles of the respective deity from the believers would feel somewhat inappropriate and should be self-destructive in a long run. After all, who would worship a deity that doesn't manifest itself, when there are others that do?
On the other hand, when temples get paid for bless in gold, it covers only part of their expenses. They still expend actions and RPs for it. So when landed regents pay for bless, it is not really for the work done. Rather it is for privilege that their lands are the ones chosen by the god/goddess :)
I believe we have a winner ;D
If all temples in a given nation work for money, then the ruler will use the one he has to pay the least. - Unless he is dedicated to one of them in particular for other reasons.
However, when the favored temple turns out to be the expensive one, the contradicting one, the treacherous one, then the ruler must chose the more amiable temple or he is failing to serve his nations interests.
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Ouch. That *is* a paladin of reason speaking. Since most of us are at least paying lip-service to the gods (and some more than just that), I think most have "other reasons".
But going by that same line of reasoning, that same person might consider whether he, in fact, is serving in the best interest of the nation. Abdication is always a possibility. And apparently the LPA had the blessing of Avanlae, or they wouldn't have been able to cast that excom-spell in the first place. Just saying :P
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If all temples in a given nation work for money, then the ruler will use the one he has to pay the least. - Unless he is dedicated to one of them in particular for other reasons.
If a regent has that point of view, I do believe he'd be in for a fun surprise - especially if the DM is watching. There is usually a reason why a domain has a state faith, or if that's not the case, there is still usually a temple with longer/stronger traditions tied to the domain than others.
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Abdicating to a treasonous temple? - I think not.
Also, since this is an OOC thread, I am fairly certain you are colored by the version the LPA has presented or are lacking in insight.
If you want to know what is going on, ask IC. :-X
Or check out the IC thread, pretty sure some interesting stuff is going to appear sooner or later.
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Have you been following the game at all? It seems temples have a pretty high churn rate around Anuire. Elinie is one notable exception.
Yes I have, from turn 1 actually. The dispute between regent and temple because of blessings has been there from the start, and is likely to stay there until RoE ends. I'm just saying that a regent "shopping" for the cheapest temple is asking for trouble. What I'm not saying is that the LPA is all reasonable here, while you are not - I probably do not even know half of what's been going on between you.
Edit: Don't mistake my posts as taking sides here. I just felt like giving my 5 cents in an ooc-thead ;)
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Well ok then.
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Abdicating to a treasonous temple? - I think not.
I'd be rather surprised if Rashid did, to be honest. And I can assure you it's not something Aubrae would do either - I was just trying to follow the "what's best for my people" approach to the letter. ;)
I'm just happy this isn't in my neck of the woods, and await the jury (or the winner) to inform us afterwards, what took place.
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Have you been following the game at all? It seems temples have a pretty high churn rate around Anuire. Elinie is one notable exception.
Yes I have, from turn 1 actually. The dispute between regent and temple because of blessings has been there from the start, and is likely to stay there until RoE ends. I'm just saying that a regent "shopping" for the cheapest temple is asking for trouble. What I'm not saying is that the LPA is all reasonable here, while you are not - I probably do not even know half of what's been going on between you.
Edit: Don't mistake my posts as taking sides here. I just felt like giving my 5 cents in an ooc-thead ;)
Whaat? The temple of reason, unreasonable? Impossible! ::)
Yeah, it's been there from the start... I translated some of the first turns from Norwegian to english. Far as I remember the waves went pretty high back then. And when I took on the OIT around turn 38, I was blessed with having a temple and a ruler that had already fought that battle and come out on each other's side against the damn treacherous nobles. So it was just a question of holding on to that status quo from there on in.
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My 5 cents:
The thought of paying GB for blessings have never crossed my mind. I have thought in lines: "How can I reduce the cost for my state faith to bless my province in the long run." and "how can I help my state faith and thus my patron Deity gain the praise that they/he deserves." and because of *issues*(tm): "How can I give ample praise to my god when his temple commits treason against me"
I would most definately pay for their help, but in holding support, protecting their holdings and lending aid if they needed. For I would think the active support of my deities followers would be more important to them than a few GB easily parted with.... But perhaps I put greater value on an ally than others because I have more gold than most?
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My 5 cents:
The thought of paying GB for blessings have never crossed my mind. I have thought in lines: "How can I reduce the cost for my state faith to bless my province in the long run." and "how can I help my state faith and thus my patron Deity gain the praise that they/he deserves." and because of *issues*(tm): "How can I give ample praise to my god when his temple commits treason against me"
I would most definately pay for their help, but in holding support, protecting their holdings and lending aid if they needed. For I would think the active support of my deities followers would be more important to them than a few GB easily parted with.... But perhaps I put greater value on an ally than others because I have more gold than most?
You certainly do have the gold ;)
A lot of temples don't, which is why they attempt to acquire other things, like GB support, holdings of other types, etc.
The LPA f.ex. blessing 3 provinces is currently spending between a third and a quarter of their income after expenses doing so.
For some it's necessary, for other's it's merely a fraction...
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You certainly do have the gold ;)
A lot of temples don't, which is why they attempt to acquire other things, like GB support, holdings of other types, etc.
The LPA f.ex. blessing 3 provinces is currently spending between a third and a quarter of their income after expenses doing so.
For some it's necessary, for other's it's merely a fraction...
In that situation there would be nothing wrong with paying them for their service...
But if I were to give GB I wanted them to be used towards constructive ends for my realm and in a way that shows my subjects that I am generous both to them and to the gods, so the construction of Chappels in those 3 provinces would be something I could donate to.
Giving the temple support and denying it to other temples in matters of Rule/create/(contest) would also be doable.
Using my troops to protect their holdings within my borders would be a must.
But to pay GB for the blessings each turn based on a treaty?
How would that show my gods greatness and prove that I am more devout than a peasant making offerings in the appropreate seasons to his god of farming?.........
Where would my statue be?
Where would my gods statue be?
I have divine blood. I have obligations to be better than the commoners, and by the gods I will be able to prove it and show it for all my subjects to see!
GOD I LOVE TO RANT ^_^
[edit to add brackets]
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You certainly do have the gold ;)
A lot of temples don't, which is why they attempt to acquire other things, like GB support, holdings of other types, etc.
The LPA f.ex. blessing 3 provinces is currently spending between a third and a quarter of their income after expenses doing so.
For some it's necessary, for other's it's merely a fraction...
In that situation there would be nothing wrong with paying them for their service...
But if I were to give GB I wanted them to be used towards constructive ends for my realm and in a way that shows my subjects that I am generous both to them and to the gods, so the construction of Chappels in those 3 provinces would be something I could donate to.
Giving the temple support and denying it to other temples in matters of Rule/create/(contest) would also be doable.
Using my troops to protect their holdings within my borders would be a must.
But to pay GB for the blessings each turn based on a treaty?
How would that show my gods greatness and prove that I am more devout than a peasant making offerings in the appropreate seasons to his god of farming?.........
Where would my statue be?
Where would my gods statue be?
I have divine blood. I have obligations to be better than the commoners, and by the gods I will be able to prove it and show it for all my subjects to see!
GOD I LOVE TO RANT ^_^
[edit to add brackets]
Well, the OoC is for ranting ;D
Now as for money I can see you're one of the realms not paying much... Maybe that will change when the Pontiff comes looking for the gold he's no longer getting from the Conclave.
Bjørn made a slip the other day, signed for the Pontiff as Wallac I - Wallac the first ;D
He'll try and claim that it was supposed to mean Isilviere, but I think we all know where the good Pontiff is headed eh ;)
(swoosh, off to create paranoia elsewhere!)
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Given the chaos, etc in Elinie I think that all we can say for sure is that everyone is going to be losing :( The LPA just wound Robhan up to the point that they turned him from reluctant neutral to open enemy and things can only get ugly now. :o
Robhan historically lobbed Elinie a bless or two a season to stay in their good graces, amusing as it was sounds I was really worried about the LPA getting Rashid to chuck me out of the realm at the start - not to mention that Rashid seemed devout enough to do it out of love for Avani anyway - blessing seemed a cheap way of staying in his good graces, and since I have a couple of reasonable size holdings it didn't really cost much. Robhan's made a few hints on payment since, but Elinie's so poor right now that he can't really put any pressure on.
I'd expect Viktor to crunch the numbers in Mhoried and laugh insanely if I suggested being paid for some of the provinces - he's ignored our treaty point on payment since ascending...
Personally my view is that everybody benefits from BTHL, so everyone should contribute (look see! flying piggies! hear the innocent halfwit speak and laugh!). The question is really balance, I'd expect the nobles (not just the ruler) and the guilds to cover a good part of the cost, maybe all of the marginal cost in a large province, but wouldn't expect any single regent to go beyond half unless they are really dominant - at which point you can't really make them do anything. A temple expecting the ruler to pay more than the ruler benefits is on a hiding to nothing though in my view.
On the numbers btw, LPA could bless 3 provinces and almost break-even once the place is up and running again, they could easily have tapped the Aegis until then but they weren't interested enough in Robhan's arguments to take up his comments on that side. Not entirely surprising as Robhan can be insufferably patronising with the LPA and was furious with them for betraying him and ruining the realm.
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In South Hold it's less of an issue because between me and my vassals, we ARE those provinces. Rowena and Kaeranne kick some tithing in along with me, and the temples receive some basic rights - mostly ones that reassure them of their own security - and support in keeping those provinces THEIRS. In provinces where things are more diverse, I could see it getting a lot more complicated.
Liborius's comments earlier, about paying for 'where', not 'if', actually bear heavily on my area. At the start of the game, Osoerde and Bellamie were on VERY touchy ground with each other. Meanwhile, Osoerde was negotiating with the IHH for blessings and friendship - I didn't know the terms, precisely, but I knew they included 'X provinces of Osoerde to be blessed each season." So, I arranged a treaty with the IHH that basically consisted of me slipping them a little more gold so that Algael and Brothendar were ALWAYS two of the provinces blessed - allowing Osoerde to essentially shoulder some of the cost of the blessings FOR me, and thumbing my nose at William quite vigorously! Not to mention maintaining the image of the IHH and South Hold, shoulder-to-shoulder, against William when needed.
These days, Tristan and William have patched things up to one degree or another, but my treaty with the IHH still holds. An example of agreements/laws outliving the circumstances that created them, and of how politics can inform the treaty as much as financials.
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I actually think that part (most in my opinion) of the issue comes from the perceived balance of power between landed regents and temple regents.
Most people would instinctively say that a landed regent has more power, and more specifically that a landed regent has more power over a temple regent than a temple regent has over the landed regent.
This perceived or sub-conscious bias in the balance of power colors any dealings between a temple and the ruler of the lands they occupy, it tends to mean that the landed regent thinks that they can make thinly disguised demands.
Personally I think the perceived bias is not true in most circumstances, if a moderate sized temple was really pissed at a landed ruler it can drive multiple (~3) provinces down 5-7 levels of prosperity in a single turn and their is not a thing a landed regent could do to stop it. Add in agitation and diplomacy with the ambitious nobles of lesser status and you can make quiet a mess.
That's not even considering the ability of a temple to go running to the CoT for assistance should the ruler try to use the military to destroy holdings, it is not in the interests of anyone in the CoT to let landed regents think they can get away with burning anyones churches, thats a privilege we reserve for ourselves.
So I'd hope that when it came to assistance for realm spells that both parties understood that they have the ability to cause the other significant pain, and then negotiated from that point.
But then again I think the entire BTHL thing is a scam, the spell does ot normally return more than it costs to cast it, and from a doctrinal point of view the CJS would prefer to teach the people how to be more productive rather than relying on divine blessings to paper over the cracks.
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If the LPA now just quietly take off their robes and put on some ArA ones, everything will be fine!
- That is, once we figure out which neighboring troops are here to help and which are here to invade.
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... Wow...
Reading the latest posts in the Elinie-council. Just wow...
Suddenly I am happy not to be part of the CoT anymore, things certainly look to take an interesting twist there soon. ::)
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... Wow...
Reading the latest posts in the Elinie-council. Just wow...
Suddenly I am happy not to be part of the CoT anymore, things certainly look to take an interesting twist there soon. ::)
Given the Ilien issue the Conclave is already twisting... personally I think that most people are going to quietly toast marshmallows around Elinie for a while until they see which way the wind is blowing, there's really little point in even enemies trying to make it worse, we're doing fine on our own...
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Probably a good call. :D
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----- Personally I think the perceived bias is not true in most circumstances, if a moderate sized temple was really pissed at a landed ruler it can drive multiple (~3) provinces down 5-7 levels of prosperity in a single turn and their is not a thing a landed regent could do to stop it. Add in agitation and diplomacy with the ambitious nobles of lesser status and you can make quiet a mess.
That's not even considering the ability of a temple to go running to the CoT for assistance should the ruler try to use the military to destroy holdings, it is not in the interests of anyone in the CoT to let landed regents think they can get away with burning anyones churches, thats a privilege we reserve for ourselves. ------
I would say that these last wars have been rather void of evident magic or effective sanctions. But there has been loads of temple burning.
I take it now the divine retribution will commence shortly?
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I have very effective vassals. I just wish they would talk to ME more often.
Disaster has been averted. LPA is now a vassal of my vassals (in all but treaty). And I'm allowed to sit on top. Just to sit though, and talk to the world.
Tough crowd. :-)
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Disaster has been averted. LPA is now a vassal of my vassals (in all but treaty). And I'm allowed to sit on top. Just to sit though, and talk to the world.
Funny, this looks like the definition of diaster (for the Patriarch anyways).
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I would say that these last wars have been rather void of evident magic or effective sanctions. But there has been loads of temple burning.
I take it now the divine retribution will commence shortly?
Nobody has burned down any of my temples, if someone else has had their pillaged and hasn't made use of the CoT to exact their pound of flesh then that is their issue.
Personally I would respond strongly if people went after my faithful, and respond quite strongly.
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Disaster has been averted. LPA is now a vassal of my vassals (in all but treaty). And I'm allowed to sit on top. Just to sit though, and talk to the world.
Funny, this looks like the definition of diaster (for the Patriarch anyways).
Perhaps, too early to tell. Its a much slower one though, so I'll take it.