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RoE General => The Sage (Questions & Answers) => : X-Roesone/ARR (Robert) September 30, 2008, 09:29:41 PM
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Driving from work today I started thinking about RoE and I remembered something which was completely normal for most medieval rulers (as it is for some modern superpowers) and that's debt.
Examples are too numerous to count, but since Roman times up until the present (Immediate present consideringBush's $700 billion "Save the big bankers" plan) emperors, kings, counts, president etc funded their armies, housing, infrastrucuture and courts with "I owe yous." Additionally, it was quite common that such debts were never paid (anyone seriously thinks that the US will ever be able to pay off its 10 trillion dollar debt?) or that "devalued" money was used (lesser quantities of precious metals in a coin than usual) which lead to inflation, bankrupcies of creditors, market collapses (Rome had a 300 year trade deficit with Persia for instance) and all kinds of nasty economic and social problems.
Birthright, however, seems to be operating on a total debt exclusion economy. You only spend what's in your treasury which, although practical, isn't really that realistic. An army won't desert (immediately) after not being paid, courts will still function, merchants will deliver food to the castle hoping for future payments and so on.
No idea how exactly this could be implemented but it would be fun.. Imagine a king after a long campaign facing a riot and being forced to sell some assets (law holdings, titles, counties) to his creditors. Many a merchant bought himself the way to nobility that way :)
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Well, yes and no.... there is debt, just not to the faceless peons that work for you, rather than the guilder who conveniently gave you gold or the temple who donated something to your holy crusade.
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No debt? A lot of rulers in RoE struggled with big debts to various guilders, and I would expect the same to be true in RoEII. Not only that, but paying a 100% interest is not fun either.
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Even the IHH/ETN took on serious debts.
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Given what I expect will be relatively low province levels in Tornilen and the expense of running a small duchy, I would not be surprised if Tornilen experienced some cash-flow pressure.
Standing aside from the civil war that tore Ghoere apart undoubtedly saved it a lot of money, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tornilen had to make arrangements with third parties to see it through lean or difficult times.
It is such pressures that give realms like Ghieste, which is somewhat politically ostracised, some hope of wider acceptance and recognition. Debt relief for landed realms only really works, of course, if the guilds (and maybe the temples like KoH) have sufficient reserves to cover the debt (even if spread over a few turns).
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Debt was more common than not in RoE - and a lot of said debts were never repaid; the rulers simply could never afford. But the guilders kept loaning more and more money...knowing that with each loaned GBs the local ruler was bound ever closer to them.
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Serves me for being a LG paladin and not even thinking of taking on debt I couldn't repay....
Good to know! ;D
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Serves me for being a LG paladin and not even thinking of taking on debt I couldn't repay....
Good to know! ;D
Lol, ditto! ;D
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The SASI and SRT loaned out loads of money.
Robert: You get to start THIS game already owing money ;D
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The SASI and SRT loaned out loads of money.
Robert: You get to start THIS game already owing money ;D
I wonder whose fault that is ::)
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AND he is now owing YOU money; that's even better!
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The SASI and SRT loaned out loads of money.
Robert: You get to start THIS game already owing money ;D
I wonder whose fault that is ::)
AND he is now owing YOU money; that's even better!
Couldn't have planned it better if I tried ;-D
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LOL.. Did I mention that kings rarely repaid their debts, and virtually never to non-nobles ;D
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Which is what happened in RoE too!
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LOL.. Did I mention that kings rarely repaid their debts, and virtually never to non-nobles ;D
Take a good look on my profile avatar before you say that! ;D
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Take a look at my several thousand buddies who are quite good at persuasion ;)
There's little criminals we call criminals and there's big criminals we call politicians ;D
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after what i heard when i gave out a loan, a regent could lose blood lvl and more by not honoring his loans, am i wrong?
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Certainly - especially Lawful regent who, without good reason, don't honor their obligiations, they can suffer a regency loss.
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Certainly - especially Lawful regent who, without good reason, don't honor their obligiations, they can suffer a regency loss.
Though some have been fine with that in the past -- I at least know of a few instances where that happened.
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especially Lawful regent
Blessed are the alignments ;D
BTW, thanks for leaving me with a chaotic one, Rune ;)
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especially Lawful regent
It is strange how alignments can effect the view of a particular regent -- and effect them in game mechanics.
Chaotic regents have always seemed to have their own set of 'issues' in RoE -- though I am not sure that Bjorn intended that.
Blessed are the alignments ;D
BTW, thanks for leaving me with a chaotic one, Rune ;)