RoE General > Armies & Warfare

Artillery units

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X-Boeruine/Ulric (Robert):
In a typical medieval siege, the invaders would build trebuchets, siege towers etc. and the defenders would use catapults or sorties to counter or destroy such threats. In the movie Kingdom of Heaven (awful script, but nice visuals and the technical side of a siege is superb).

My question is.. if a trebuchet is listed as having a movement rating of - i.e. unmovable even by means of a military unit (which can be used to move other similar units like catapults), how is an attacker ever going to apply a trebuchet in battle?

And yes, a trebuchet is built, but the description says :province 6, which is ridiculous since, if you look at a trebuchet you'll notice that it doesn't require any fancy materials except wood and a little iron nor is it very high tech. In fact, a team of carpenters built one in a documentary I watched, and skilled trebuchet makers would be able to churn them out almost everywhere, except maybe in Khinasi (though Kingdom of Heaven disproves that a bit).

Me thinks there's a need for an update of artillery units rules... :)

X-Tuornen/LF (Geir):
My suggestion,
As I understand it medieval siege equipment could crudely be divided into a lighter moveable type and a heavy build_to_use_on_site type. Heavy stuff can’t be moved on the roads available, so it is much quicker to move labor and materials.
The trebuchet falls into the heavy type. Also tunnels and ramparts are stuff that one builds on site naturally.

So on to my suggestion on the province level question,
I would think that it’s the skill of labor and the availability of materials that decides if a trebuchet can be built. But to train and field a unit capable of building a trebuchet indicates a level of technology as there are great forces involved in its mechanism. Not being an engineer I would still argue that it is more complex technology then say a catapult. The ratio of the machines mass to its ability to direct force is much higher than a catapult. So the forces involved must be handled with more skill so not to destroy the mechanism.
All in all to field a catapult unit could well require a higher province level then say a catapult.

X-Brosengae [Cloene] (Linde):
..... so what you need is to train trebuchet builders? Or should it just be covered by engineers?

They in turn can build trebuchets for you on site... It will take much longer than just bringing balistae, but it would be more effective.

When you look at the minimum province level to build units, the unit generally needs a higher province level the better the unit is.. So I fail to see the reason to make an exception for artillery units, unless you want to make conquest easier than defense.

X-Boeruine/Ulric (Robert):
You were on the right track with the beginning of your post. What one needs is a team of trebuchet builders, mostly carpenters, plus a siege engineer/architect and these skilled personell would construct a trebuchet on the battlefield. So, a province 6 is required to find qualified engineers who know how to build and operate them (calculatr weight/distance for throws), but then thy could be built wherever there's lumber available while taking the metal parts with them.

So, it might take a few weeks or months of construction during siege, but they'd be devastating once completed.

Edward I used them in his conquest of Scotland. Once the "war wolf," the largest trebuchet ever, was built and rocks started flying, the castle would surrender pretty fast. It took 3 months and a team of 50+ carpenters and the parts required 30 wagons. A veritable monster :)

 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwolf

 www.knight-medieval.com/siege-weapons.htm

X-Avanil/Aubrae Avan (Thorsten):
I think they've been "left behind" on account of the fluid nature of warfare in Anuire. We have very few lasting sieges - in most cases the more direct (and bloody) assault has been chosen. Even Ilien, which is possibly the only siege I've seen last more than a few months, was subject to an all out assault.

That said, I wouldn't be against some kind of arbitrary rule that allowed for a besieger to build trebuchets, as long as he had a working supply-line to a lvl 6 province under his control.

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