RoE Development > Regent Guide

Hire Help

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Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde):
By request:


Hired Help by level:Base DDCLow5Medium8High11First (Best) skillDDC modifierProficient+0skilled+1Expert+3Master+6Second skillDDC modifierProficient+1Skilled+3Expert+6Third skillDDC modifierProficient+2Skilled+5Expert+9Fourth skillDDC ModifierProficient+3Skilled+7Bloodline strengthDDC modifierweak+5minor+10major+15Caster lvl:+2 per lvl
Numbers from my proposal as a table.
You pick the level of the character, then you pick his most important skill, and then you decide to add up to 3 more skills.. Always adding the highest one first.

Lastly you choose BS if any and CL if any.
Remember:
Low= lvl 1-3
Medium = lvl 4-6
High = lvl 7-9
So don't be adding CL 5 to a low level character.

Torele Anviras/TA (Niels):
Yea that works. If caster level is not = to actual level, it indicates multi-classing.

Only thing left is to entice the GM's :)

Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde):
So getting a high level master (spellcraft) skilled(Diplomacy) Proficient(administration) BS Minor. CL 8 Wizard/Expert capable of casting realm magic would be a DDC: 42

High lvl 11
Master(spellcraft)+6
Skilled(Diplomacy)+3
Proficient(Administration)+2
BS minor: +10
Caster Level 5: +10

Silver House/ClDh (Bobby):
I see three different methods of resolving actions such as Hire Help being proposed here.  I think we all agree we want a consistent, clear set of rules rather than haphazard kludges or undocumented exceptions, so lets look at each option in turn, using the example of hiring a mid-level Wizard for advice and adventuring.

1) The Classic Method: This is the primary method used under Bjorn in RoE 1 & 2.  DDCs must be met in a single roll and retried from scratch if the attempt fails.  Additional 'Supportive' Actions can be performed alongside the Primary Action to provide simple numeric bonuses. 
Example: Hiring the wizard has a DDC 25.  Diplomacy performed with the Tower of Wizardry provides a +6 bonus to the DAC, requiring a 19 total from the roll and Influence.

2) The Sequence Method (Andy): Multiple actions must be performed successfully to achieve the goal.  DDCs for these actions are lower individually than the single DDC of the Classic Method. 
Comments: Bjorn used this method several times in RoE 1 & 2 with my actions, especially Research actions.  However, this method would likely be less well-defined than the Classic Method, as creating a set rule structure for how many actions of what DDC would be needed would be very hard.  The DM would have to make judgement calls on a case-by-case basis. 
Example: Hiring the wizard requires two to three actions, each with DDC 10-15, depending on the DM's judgement - one would be Hire Help, and the other(s) would depend on how the player goes about the hiring, flavor-wise.

3) The Cumulative Method (Linde): A single DDC is set for a single action type.  Multiple attempts can be made, with their results accumulating until the DDC is met.
Comments: My tabletop game uses this for Progress actions when designing new military units and new structures.  We carry over 1/2 of the  die roll and the full Influence spent each season as an accumulating bonus to future rolls - this lets us make steady progress towards the final result over the course of several seasons.  Our DDCs for actions handled this way are typically VERY high by RoE standards - creating a new Legionnaires unit was a DDC 80 and took over a year, but the result was superior to any other shock infantry in the region. 
Example: Hiring the wizard has a DDC 25.  Three Hire Help actions are performed over two season, resulting in a 10 and a 7 in the first season for a total of 17, and a 14 in the second season, for a successful total of 31. 


Once we're all agreed on how we want to perform actions (with Matt having a particularly loud voice in that), working out the details of how to calculate DDCs or actions required will be more straightforward.  I like a lot of what Linde's proposed - it may be more 'crunchy' and detailed than is needed, but I don't think that will hurt things, and will help avoid confusion.  First, though, I'd like to get people's comments on the larger possibilities that Andy and Linde have suggested.  What do you guys think?

Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde):
I like the cumulative method best! (Pat on the back to whomever came up with that idea)

I don't know if it would be better to set the goal for accumulation higher than the DDC, but say that a successful roll always gets you the man now. Or keep the goal level with the DDC.?
I think keeping it level with the DDC would be easier, but it is definitely a tweaking tool the DM could use to make Hail Mary attempts unattractive.


Sequence Method: Is also a viable option. One way to quickly adapt it would be to say it take one action +1 per 15 in the old DDC and that the new DDC is half the one I proposed... But this method still has the risk of zero progress and the feel of failure is greater if you have to redo an action.
Even though rolling a 4 when you needed 11 is no guarantee you wont roll 4 again. 


Classic Method: Well, I never really felt this option was in play. I always got a character out of my effort. Not always one who could do all what I set out to find, but at least some of it. And that is something I liked a lot. A classic method with failed action = try again is something I would like to avoid. So I hope DM team will go for Sequence or Cumulative method.

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