Author Topic: Affluent Mines  (Read 1398 times)

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Offline X-Points East

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Affluent Mines
« on: November 20, 2009, 03:55:44 am »

OoC:

A proposed structure follows. . . .

Affluent Mines [Generic]
     DDC:  17.
     Build Cost:  40 GB.
     Upkeep:  0.5 GB/turn.
     Benefits:  In a province with Affluent Mines, there are available one extra level of guild and one extra level of trade (beyond province level).
     In addition, Affluent Mines reduce a province's growth rate multiplier by 1.
     Restrictions:  Affluent Mines may only be constructed in provinces with hills or mountains (or an equivalent terrain).  If primary terrain should be one of these acceptable terrains, then calculate DDC and Build Cost normally.  If primary terrain should not be one of these acceptable terrains, then compare the primary terrain with the most favourable acceptable terrain present and calculate DDC and Build Cost based on the least favourable of these two.
     Examples:  In a plains (clear) province with secondary terrain of hills (rugged) and medium mountains (forbidding), the most favourable acceptable terrain present is hills.  Hills are less favourable than plains; so, DDC and Build Cost are calculated based on hills (i.e., rugged terrain).  In a swamp (forbidding) province with secondary terrain of hills and medium mountains, the DDC and Build Cost are calculated based on swamp (i.e., forbidding terrain), as swamp is less favourable than hills.



. . . Edit:  I think that the version of Affluent Mines in this post can be ignored.  See Reply #12 (http://www.twilightpeaks.net/forum/index.php?topic=869.msg9906#msg9906), below, for an other approach.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 07:25:42 am by X-Points East/EL »

Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 09:42:21 am »
I like it.

Typically, provinces in hilly areas are capped on growth, but extensive mining industry might indeed push commerce levels above the number of residents.

And since the building favors hilly areas, I do not think any of the current power house provinces can build it, so no extreme end IMBA results.

I'm not sure if the price is too steep though, esp. as its going to be modified for hills at a minimum, and possibly for poor traffic conditions too. - What are your estimated return on investment time?
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Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 08:54:14 pm »
As I'm understanding this, if the primary terrain type is hills or mountains, then you DON'T modify for terrain type - building this in the hills is equivalent to building most structures in the plains.  Yes?

Here's a question: Say you have a province 4 with a GRM of 6.  It needs 150 growth to become a province 5.  Build this, though, and the GRM drops to 5.  That'd indicate you only need 125 growth to go up.  Would that change immediately?  If the province had already gained 130 growth, would it immediately grow to a province 5?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 09:02:29 pm by Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby) »

Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 09:20:12 pm »

As I'm understanding this, if the primary terrain type is hills or mountains, then you DON'T modify for terrain type - building this in the hills is equivalent to building most structures in the plains.  Yes?

OoC:

No.  "If primary terrain should be one of these acceptable terrains, then calculate DDC and Build Cost normally."  I think that DDC and Build Cost are normally calculated based on primary terrain.


Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 09:32:15 pm »
The growth rate modifier also changes the amount needed to grow to next level?

That does not make sense. It takes longer for a province with a GRM of 5 to grow from 4 to 5 than if the GRM was 6.

If it worked as you describe Bobby, then indeed there would occur a problem. Not looking it up or anything, but isn't the value to next level a static?

AFAIT it was just the GRM that controlled how fast it would grow, not in any way influencing the cutoff to nect level.
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Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 09:55:31 pm »

Here's a question: Say you have a province 4 with a GRM of 6.  It needs 150 growth to become a province 5.  Build this, though, and the GRM drops to 5.  That'd indicate you only need 125 growth to go up.  Would that change immediately?  If the province had already gained 130 growth, would it immediately grow to a province 5?

OoC:

Completion of construction would not cause an immediate increase in population:  adjust 130 GB/150 GB to 108 GB (rounded down)/125 GB.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 10:01:46 pm by Points East/EL (Brandon) »

Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 09:59:27 pm »

The growth rate modifier also changes the amount needed to grow to next level?

OoC:  GRM = Growth Rate Multiplier.


Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 11:25:45 pm »
The growth rate modifier also changes the amount needed to grow to next level?

That does not make sense. It takes longer for a province with a GRM of 5 to grow from 4 to 5 than if the GRM was 6.

If it worked as you describe Bobby, then indeed there would occur a problem. Not looking it up or anything, but isn't the value to next level a static?

AFAIT it was just the GRM that controlled how fast it would grow, not in any way influencing the cutoff to nect level.

The required growth to raise province level equals the GRM times the new province level squared.  So a level 4 province with a GRM of 6 requires 5*5*6 or 150 growth to advance - although Bjorn has made this much less concrete and more conceptual in this game.  The growth rate is entirely separate, and is usually simply equal to the current province level.

Brandon - alright, makes sense.  The structure will definitely take a while to pay off (if I built it in Bellam, for instance, it'd take between 5 and 6.75 years, not counting the cost of Ruling up the new Guild and Trade), although I can see Bjorn giving bonuses if, say, the folks in Serien built this to get their silver mines going again, or the Tuornen folks building it for their new gold mines.  Is that about what you were thinking it should be?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 11:29:52 pm by Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby) »

Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2009, 01:42:56 am »

As I'm understanding this, if the primary terrain type is hills or mountains, then you DON'T modify for terrain type - building this in the hills is equivalent to building most structures in the plains.  Yes?

OoC:

No.  "If primary terrain should be one of these acceptable terrains, then calculate DDC and Build Cost normally."  I think that DDC and Build Cost are normally calculated based on primary terrain.



Ok, then this is way too expensive.  That makes the cost either 60 or 80 GB for hills or mountains.  To give a concrete example, if I built this in Bellam (a level 5 Hills province where I own both the guilds, trade, and 4 out of 5 law - a near-ideal situation for this structure), the bonus level of Guild and Trade would boost my income by 1.5GB, or 2 GB if I keep Bellam blessed.  20 seasons of construction for an income-boosting building that'll won't pay for itself for another 30-40 seasons?  Something needs adjusting.

Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2009, 03:43:12 am »

OoC:

An altered (and perhaps improved?) version follows:  "reduce a province's growth rate multiplier by 1" has been replaced by "increase province growth by 1 GB per season". . . .

Affluent Mines [Generic]
     DDC:  17.
     Build Cost:  40 GB.
     Upkeep:  0.5 GB/turn.
     Benefits:  In a province with Affluent Mines, there are available one extra level of guild and one extra level of trade (beyond province level).
     In addition, Affluent Mines increase province growth by 1 GB per season.
     Restrictions:  Affluent Mines may only be constructed in provinces with hills or mountains (or an equivalent terrain).  If primary terrain should be one of these acceptable terrains, then calculate DDC and Build Cost normally.  If primary terrain should not be one of these acceptable terrains, then compare the primary terrain with the most favourable acceptable terrain present and calculate DDC and Build Cost based on the least favourable of these two.
     Examples:  In a plains (clear) province with secondary terrain of hills (rugged) and medium mountains (forbidding), the most favourable acceptable terrain present is hills.  Hills are less favourable than plains; so, DDC and Build Cost are calculated based on hills (i.e., rugged terrain).  In a swamp (forbidding) province with secondary terrain of hills and medium mountains, the DDC and Build Cost are calculated based on swamp (i.e., forbidding terrain), as swamp is less favourable than hills.



. . . Edit:  I think that the version of Affluent Mines in this post can be ignored.  See Reply #12 (http://www.twilightpeaks.net/forum/index.php?topic=869.msg9906#msg9906), below, for an other approach.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 07:04:36 am by X-Points East/EL »

Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2009, 04:25:01 am »


As I'm understanding this, if the primary terrain type is hills or mountains, then you DON'T modify for terrain type - building this in the hills is equivalent to building most structures in the plains.  Yes?

OoC:

No.  "If primary terrain should be one of these acceptable terrains, then calculate DDC and Build Cost normally."  I think that DDC and Build Cost are normally calculated based on primary terrain.



Ok, then this is way too expensive.  That makes the cost either 60 or 80 GB for hills or mountains.  To give a concrete example, if I built this in Bellam (a level 5 Hills province where I own both the guilds, trade, and 4 out of 5 law - a near-ideal situation for this structure), the bonus level of Guild and Trade would boost my income by 1.5GB, or 2 GB if I keep Bellam blessed.  20 seasons of construction for an income-boosting building that'll won't pay for itself for another 30-40 seasons?  Something needs adjusting.

OoC:

An increase in provincial growth rate has value, no?


Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2009, 05:43:54 am »
It does, but since Bjorn shifted province growth to a conceptual style rather than a strictly numbers-based one, it's difficult to say how much value.

Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2009, 06:43:41 am »

OoC:

An other approach follows. . . .

Mines [Generic]
     DDC:  12.
     Build Cost:  10 GB.
     Upkeep:  0.25 GB/turn.
     Benefits:  In a province with Mines, their owner receives a +2 bonus against Contest (Guild & Trade).
     In addition, Mines increase province growth by 1 GB per year (applied in spring).
     Restrictions:  Mines may only be constructed in provinces with hills or mountains (or an equivalent terrain).  If primary terrain should be one of these acceptable terrains, then calculate DDC and Build Cost normally.  If primary terrain should not be one of these acceptable terrains, then compare the primary terrain with the most favourable acceptable terrain present and calculate DDC and Build Cost based on the least favourable of these two.
     Examples:  In a plains (clear) province with secondary terrain of hills (rugged) and medium mountains (forbidding), the most favourable acceptable terrain present is hills.  Hills are less favourable than plains; so, DDC and Build Cost are calculated based on hills (i.e., rugged terrain).  In a swamp (forbidding) province with secondary terrain of hills and medium mountains, the DDC and Build Cost are calculated based on swamp (i.e., forbidding terrain), as swamp is less favourable than hills.

Affluent Mines [Generic]
     DDC:  17.
     Build Cost:  40 GB.
     Upkeep:  0.5 GB/turn.
     Benefits:  In a province with Affluent Mines, their owner receives a +4 bonus against Contest (Guild & Trade).
     In addition, in a province with Affluent Mines, there are available one extra level of guild and one extra level of trade (beyond province level).
     Restrictions:  Affluent Mines have the same restrictions as Mines.
     Note:  It is possible to upgrade from Mines to Affluent Mines.  However, upon completion of the upgrade, the Mines's bonus to province growth is replaced by the extra holding availability.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 06:29:43 am by Points East/EL (Brandon) »

Offline X-Points East

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Re: Affluent Mines
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2009, 10:00:34 pm »

Grand Mines
DDC   12
Build Cost   25
Upkeep   0.25
Benefits   1 extra level of trade holding is available in the province above and beyond the province level.
Description   Grand mines can be built only in mountainous terrain. They reflect deep mines, vast pumps, and canals to carry away drained water.
Inspired by:   Twin towers of Ilien

OoC:

I think that I looked at the above structure, before designing the Affluent Mines.