Author Topic: Finances  (Read 867 times)

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Offline Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde)

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Finances
« on: July 12, 2013, 01:41:57 am »
This is more of a flavor question than anything else.

RoE3 gives untaxed province income to the province ruler.

Flavor wise I think the money you could dig out with finances in RoE2 came from untaxed province income. But I could be wrong.

Where do it come from now? Unseen pool of province/realm resources?
Province growth?
Somewhere else?
Thuriene Donalls.
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Supreme Hierarch of the Northern Imperial Temple of Haelyn.

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They will thrive, grow and be the most beautiful flowers in the garden of man."

Offline Dhoesone/FD_(Marco)

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Re: Finances
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 08:47:07 am »
it was the same in RoE II.

higher tax level meant higher income for law holdings and lower for other holdings

lower tax level meant lower income for law holdings and higher for other holdings

no taxes meant 0 income for law holdings.

I think that a ruler of a province has still some income even if he doesn't control any holding.

They might be, in concrete game terms, some corvees due by common people to the rightful lord.

Or they might be some payment by minor vassalls (controlling a very little area in the province, less than holding 0) to avoid obligations of militar service (it was a common practice in middle age, the vassal used to pay gold to avoid to join the army when the lord had called for it).
Fhiele Dhoesone, by the Grace of Haelyn Baroness of Dhoesone and Countess of Sonnelind
"You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true, and also fierce, you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her."

Offline Talinie & NIT/TD (Linde)

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Re: Finances
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 10:18:40 am »
it was the same in RoE II.

higher tax level meant higher income for law holdings and lower for other holdings

lower tax level meant lower income for law holdings and higher for other holdings

no taxes meant 0 income for law holdings.

I think that a ruler of a province has still some income even if he doesn't control any holding.

They might be, in concrete game terms, some corvees due by common people to the rightful lord.

Or they might be some payment by minor vassalls (controlling a very little area in the province, less than holding 0) to avoid obligations of militar service (it was a common practice in middle age, the vassal used to pay gold to avoid to join the army when the lord had called for it).
In roe 2 untaxed province income was lost.  In roe 3 province ruler get that income.
Thuriene Donalls.
Thane of Talinie.
Supreme Hierarch of the Northern Imperial Temple of Haelyn.

"Those who hear the word of Haelyn and obey are like plants rooted in rich, fertile soil.
They will thrive, grow and be the most beautiful flowers in the garden of man."

Offline Dhoesone/FD_(Marco)

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Re: Finances
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 10:59:26 am »
I'm tinkering with RoE III's p&h and it seems to me it works as RoeII's.

Fhiele Dhoesone, by the Grace of Haelyn Baroness of Dhoesone and Countess of Sonnelind
"You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true, and also fierce, you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her."

Offline Silver House/ClDh (Bobby)

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Re: Finances
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 03:12:28 pm »
Finance is the Domain equivalent of rooting around in the couch cushions for loose change so you can pay the pizza delivery guy, or maybe taking that two-week part-time retail job during the holidays for some extra spending money.  It doesn't directly have anything to do with the P&H or province income, nor is it limited to landed domains - it's your regent finding cash wherever he can.  For a guilder, it might be cutting a few quick deals or disposing of surplus goods in a fire-sale; a landed regent might be selling off some minor holdings or shaking down some lesser nobles who've been behind on their taxes; a wizard might be making some 'love' potions or other minor charms and spell-casting for noble families willing to pay.  It's usually stuff that's not really sustainable in the long-term, but it nets a small amount of GB in the RIGHT NOW.  If you have an action you just don't need (who ARE you and how did you manage THAT?) or you're totally strapped for income, it's a reasonable move to make.... occasionally.  Regular use, however, will accumulate more and more consequences as you squeeze every source of income dry.

Offline Yggdrasil (DM Andy)

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Re: Finances
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 09:58:02 pm »
I tweaked the P&H, the untaxed province income was calculated and taxed in ROE 2, but the sum formulas in the regent rows were omitted and so the untaxed income simply vanished.  In ROE 3 the smaller realm populations made realm rulers too weak so as a patch I put the sums back in.

In my mind the "province income" comes from the low level disorganised stuff, personal taxes, ale fines, village and town fees.  Domains then represent organisation, the huge increases in profitability from organised labour, systemic use of capital, etc.  In a sense a realm is an over-grown tribe but domains are the effect of civilisation (with the possible exception of the ES representing the shamanic tradition).

If the inclusion of province income turns out not to work I will of course upgrade my thinking to reflect the conversion of known unknowns into known knowns  8)
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