Author Topic: Domain maintenance and court expenditure  (Read 3406 times)

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Offline DM B

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Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« on: September 07, 2012, 02:35:13 pm »
I'm also intoducing small changes here:

Domain maint becomes simpler to claculate, but is mostly unchanged.

For court exp 1 Gb does not neccesarily mean 1 court 'level' anymore. High-level courts cost a bit more. A level 7 court costs 8 Gb rather than 7, all the way up to 15 Gbs for a level 10 court. You can have courts of even higher level than 10 - but they only give you exctra actions, not a bigger bonus (+5 is max). That last bit is actually unchanged.
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Offline DM B

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 02:36:04 pm »
TABLE 4-7: COURT EXPENDITURE
Level   Expenditure   DAC mod   Description
-   0 GB   -20   You do have no court at all. Court actions are next to impossible.
0   0,5 GB   -5   Your court is a joke; other regents are offended if approached by you.
1   1 GB   -4   Your court is very quaint, but still provides some basic functions.
2   2 GB   -3   Your court is rather poor, but is adequate for most purposes.
3   3 GB   -2   Your court is small, but is approaching acceptable standard.
4   4 GB   -1   Your court is below average, but hardly enough to be noticed.
5   5 GB   0   Your court considered average for a medium-sized realm.
6   6 GB   +1   Your court is considered above average for a medium kingdom.
7   8 GB   +2   You court is large and provides you with many competent hirelings.
8   10 GB   +3   Your court is prestigious, suitable for a great kingdom.
9   12 GB   +4   Your court is renowned for its size, retainers, and many events
10   15 GB   +5   Your court is opulent with fantastic spending, and numerous retainers.
+1   +3 GB   +0   You court is fantastic, you gain few actual benefits, but it is good for prestige.
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Offline DM B

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 02:36:20 pm »
TABLE 4-6: DOMAIN MAINTENANCE
# Provinces
and Holdings   Maintenance
Cost
0-5   0 GB
6-10   0,5 GB
10-100   1 GB/10 lvls
101-200   1, 5 GB/10 lvls
201-300   2 GB/10 lvls
301+   3 GB/10 lvls
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 02:39:58 am »
I like the streamlined domain maint rule.  The court rule probably doesn't affect most domains...
Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...

Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 12:51:58 pm »
Is the cost stepped or cumulative?

So if a player has 101 holding levels do they pay:

a. 5*0 + 5*.5 + 90*1 + 1*1.5 = 94     or
b.  101 * 1.5 = 151.5?

The first is slightly more complex the first time that it's calculated (changes are easy once the base is done) but you get some nasty "cliff-edges" with option b.
Robhan Khaiarén
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Offline DM B

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 08:04:55 pm »
It would be b.

The idea is that having more than 100 lvls should be inefficient.
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 08:42:05 pm »
It would be b.

The idea is that having more than 100 lvls should be inefficient.

Gaining that extra holding level costs you 5.15 GB in upkeep so the regent's income would probably reduce from gaining a holding level which seems extremely inefficient  :o

100 holdings, 100*1/10=10 GB vs 101 holdings, 101*1.5/10 = 15.15 GB.

Method "a" makes additional holdings increasingly unproductive which reflects inefficiency but the cliff edge is avoided as you cross a boundary - you could ramp up the step cost to really push the "don't get cocky" message though.

As an alternative to increasing cost to deter large domains, have you considered stability?

A simple conversion:
0-5   +2 stability
6-10   +1 stability
10-100   no impact
101-200   -1 stability
201-300   -2 stability
301+   -3 stability

I'd consider reducing the top "step size" from 100 blocks to blocks of, say, 2*bloodline score.  Or to be tough [bloodlinescore+court spend] although that would leave a lot of current domains on a base of -1 stability (modified by alignment, etc).

That would give the very small domains a good chance of pulling off actions despite minimal income, while encouraging larger domains to create vassals - the value of take 10 is quite significant in RP saving.
Robhan Khaiarén
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 02:25:50 am »
The solution is to get a vassal -which is likely the point.
Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...

Offline DM B

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 11:12:27 am »
It would be b.

The idea is that having more than 100 lvls should be inefficient.

Gaining that extra holding level costs you 5.15 GB in upkeep so the regent's income would probably reduce from gaining a holding level which seems extremely inefficient  :o

100 holdings, 100*1/10=10 GB vs 101 holdings, 101*1.5/10 = 15.15 GB.

Method "a" makes additional holdings increasingly unproductive which reflects inefficiency but the cliff edge is avoided as you cross a boundary - you could ramp up the step cost to really push the "don't get cocky" message though.

As an alternative to increasing cost to deter large domains, have you considered stability?

A simple conversion:
0-5   +2 stability
6-10   +1 stability
10-100   no impact
101-200   -1 stability
201-300   -2 stability
301+   -3 stability

I'd consider reducing the top "step size" from 100 blocks to blocks of, say, 2*bloodline score.  Or to be tough [bloodlinescore+court spend] although that would leave a lot of current domains on a base of -1 stability (modified by alignment, etc).

That would give the very small domains a good chance of pulling off actions despite minimal income, while encouraging larger domains to create vassals - the value of take 10 is quite significant in RP saving.

Very interesting feedback!

The stability idea was very intriguing - it's easier to keep control of a very small domain than a very large one. Conceptually very sound.
DM Bjørn

Offline X-Mhoried/Constantine Mhor (Wiktor)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2012, 11:24:01 am »

I'd consider reducing the top "step size" from 100 blocks to blocks of, say, 2*bloodline score.  Or to be tough [bloodlinescore+court spend] although that would leave a lot of current domains on a base of -1 stability (modified by alignment, etc).


Connecting the bloodline power to the stability of the realm is also a nice idea!

Basically creating vassals should be the only way for huge domains, something similar to the demense score in CK I & II
His Grace Constantine Mhor the Duke of Mhoried

Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 04:10:00 pm »
The stability idea, particularly if the upper and lower limits of stability are expanded, could explain the tendency of large domains to break up.  Or, why the Gorgon, never quite seems to steamroll Anuire (hard to do if you have a -5 to everything).
Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...

Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 09:18:47 pm »
I agree entirely on the "that's why you get vassals" point, but you could look at it from another perspective "in a large domain vassals are important enough to be a master in their own right" - if a large domain has no Vassals (big "V") then that indicates that the "mid/upper tier" of vassals (small "v") are so pitiful that no-one puts true faith in the vassals - which would fit in with a stability hit for the domain.

Every regent has vassals, minions of greater and lesser degree, these vassals become Vassals at the point that the lord is sufficiently distant for the people to see the Vassal as their "real" lord whilst the Vassal still accepts the "real" regent as master (the "story" issue which the Vassal mechanic is trying to reflect in my view)

I like tying stabilty in a large realm to bloodline because in my view it fits in with the "born to rule" aspect of BR, destiny conspires to weave fate's tapestry around a scion's life and the people instinctively look to scions for guidance and rule - if a commoner and a scion both have the same legal power, rights and wealth then over time the scion should pull ahead, and the same holds true between scions of differing bloodline - that is why in BR cannon all rulers are scions and more powerful domains and bloodline go hand in hand (mostly, and yes I accept that other matters also come into play, etc, I'm taking poetic licence for effect ok?)

One downside to the approach in RoE is that to a large degree the idea is "play the domain" not "play the ruler" but I don't see that as a big issue given the opportunity for bloodline inheritance - the bloodline effectively flows with the domain barring catastrophe or exaltation which sounds about right.
Robhan Khaiarén
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Offline DM B

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 08:43:22 am »
Very interresting.

Bloodlines ARE part of  domain. Your current regent is only a vessel for that bloodline. So it's conceptually sound.
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Offline X-WIT/Toreas Kharnmoin (Rune)

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 11:46:05 am »
How does that translate to the non-landed regent domains where the bloodline wouldn't neccesarily be passed down?
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Offline DM B

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Re: Domain maintenance and court expenditure
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 12:00:40 pm »
I'm thinking that transference of bloodlines from old regent to new has not been given enough attention with regards to non-landed domains. Now have we really taked much about how the Land's Choice might figure into it all.

So many permutations...
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