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RoE Development => Regent Guide => : DM B June 07, 2009, 09:42:46 PM

: Construction/fortify - Action type
: DM B June 07, 2009, 09:42:46 PM
The Construction/fortify actions will from now on require court actions all the way; i.e. will never be a free action. Major construction projects demand some attention from the domain.

This also fixes a problem where one domain might engage in a huge number of projects (which was never the intention).
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Points East June 07, 2009, 09:57:54 PM

The Construction/fortify actions will from now on require court actions all the way; i.e. will never be a free action. Major construction projects demand some attention from the domain.

This also fixes a problem where one domain might engage in a huge number of projects (which was never the intention).

OoC:  Does the court action requirement apply to Commission Ship, as well?

: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: DM B June 07, 2009, 10:14:01 PM
Possibly. Comments?

(perhaps your shipyard structures could make some commission actions free actions each turn?)
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Points East June 07, 2009, 10:23:42 PM

The Construction/fortify actions will from now on require court actions all the way; i.e. will never be a free action. Major construction projects demand some attention from the domain.

This also fixes a problem where one domain might engage in a huge number of projects (which was never the intention).

OoC:  Can Fortify still be taken as a free action within the context of Wage War?

: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-DM Jon June 08, 2009, 12:03:43 AM

The Construction/fortify actions will from now on require court actions all the way; i.e. will never be a free action. Major construction projects demand some attention from the domain.

This also fixes a problem where one domain might engage in a huge number of projects (which was never the intention).

OoC:  Can Fortify still be taken as a free action within the context of Wage War?



 Yes. Unless Fortify is changed into a court action, the standard rules still apply. I believe Bjørn's statement is directed towards removing the old rule that a construction once started only requires free actions to continue.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) June 08, 2009, 12:44:32 AM
The Construction/fortify actions will from now on require court actions all the way; i.e. will never be a free action. Major construction projects demand some attention from the domain.

This also fixes a problem where one domain might engage in a huge number of projects (which was never the intention).

Perhaps handle it similar to advisor action - first advisor action is free and similarly the first construction action is free (costing no court action).

Thus no domain engage in a huge number of projects
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Mhoried/Droene Kavarra (Iasonas) June 08, 2009, 01:01:29 AM

Perhaps handle it similar to advisor action - first advisor action is free and similarly the first construction action is free (costing no court action).

Thus no domain engage in a huge number of projects

What exactly do you mean by first action? First construction action of a series of construction actions in the same turn, or First construction action in a project?

Either way I am inclined to agree with Bjorn. I always support simplicity, and I can see no apparent reason for construction actions not to demand significant attention.

Unless of course the regent delegates to a trusted lieutenant, with some skill in constructions. This would however complicate things without adding significant flavor in the game.

At least that is the way I see things :)
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) June 08, 2009, 06:40:05 AM
I mean each season the first construction action is a free action (paying only the 3 BG for the actual building).

If not the price for all buildings jumped 33% up (as one court action cost 1 GB)

Doing it like this I suggest to lower prices of all building with 20 or more percent (assuming price is now effectively 4 GB each turn vs earlier 3 GB straight)
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: DM B June 08, 2009, 07:49:43 AM
Fortify is henceforth a Court action (i.e. cannot be used in conjunction with Wage War)
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) June 08, 2009, 11:34:58 PM
Please elaborate a bit; I am currently building an embassy in Anuire city - that will now, besides the original court action taken to start building, require 1 court action every season to continue being build?

Furthermore I am correct that this is to prevent massproduction of constructions only to be "sold" by the constructor upon being finished yes? If so making each domain able to making one construction action every season as a free action limited in it still requires one court action to start a building, makes for things to work as they do now but prevent massconstructions for free
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) June 08, 2009, 11:35:52 PM
I mean each season the first construction action is a free action (paying only the 3 BG for the actual building).

If not the price for all buildings jumped 33% up (as one court action cost 1 GB)

Doing it like this I suggest to lower prices of all building with 20 or more percent (assuming price is now effectively 4 GB each turn vs earlier 3 GB straight)

I think that the 1 GB cost of the court action is not an issue - the cost is just the 3 GB spent on the construction which already includes any administration required, but whereas formerly a L4 court could theoretically be building a dozen projects at once and still have 4 court actions left to play with, now it will have to assign court actions to construction projects, and only be able to progress 4 projects at any given time.

Although given I completely misread the rules last time I read about construction, so maybe not  :-\
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) June 08, 2009, 11:49:04 PM
I base my 4 GB price on assuming you still need those court actions for whatever you do with them you will have to raise court by 1 to build one thing, instead of using only 1 court action to begin the project.

Personnally my court actions where allready spoken of before the rule change; I had 1 to spare to start it but I dont have the next 3 court actions (and that was BEFORE my sinister regent, Wallac, got himself out of favour with the big boss. That will likely cost some court actions (and I guess adventure and regent actions)
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) July 24, 2009, 03:02:28 PM
With the additional actions becoming court actions, perhaps it would be worth looking at readjusting the number of court actions available to a domain. Perhaps 1.5 times the Court expenditure. Or a combination of Court and Domain expenses? Court plus 50% Domain gives number of actions, but Court cost still determines Court action modifier.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: DM B July 25, 2009, 08:57:45 AM
The idea about domain + court warrants a closer look. I'll take it into consideration.

Anyway, the idea is to make court actions more valuable, so I'm not sure its the way I want to go.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) July 25, 2009, 11:48:26 AM
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but one idea I like is to make the current Regent actions require both a Character action and a Court action. This allows it to represent the efforts of a combined domain, rather then the current system where a regent can perform three actions without any assistance.

This makes a reasonable court more of a requirement for even moderately sized domains. Perhaps more interesting is the possibility for character focused domains to not pay too much attention to their court. This would apply to Wizards and for Adventure eager domains such as the Wardens. Similarly Vassals with a limited (or non-existent) court would be limited to supporting their liege with character actions, rather than spamming with a huge number of regent actions.

This does of course change the actions system quite drastically, and the cost of court/domain upkeep will have to be balanced against action costs. Perhaps the standard 1GB action cost would be considered to be included in the continuing upkeep. It would also be possible to differentiate between actions requiring more effort, thus taking more than one action. Getting down the path of Action Points here, so I'll stop rambling before I get to carried away.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) July 25, 2009, 11:42:15 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but one idea I like is to make the current Regent actions require both a Character action and a Court action. This allows it to represent the efforts of a combined domain, rather then the current system where a regent can perform three actions without any assistance.

Amusingly that is how I first read the existing rules...

Robhan would have vast numbers of unused court actions if not currently building various projects, so I see no reason not to cut the number of court actions - DC increases stop him doing 4 rules a round (or whatever), and I don't want him to to go silly with adviser actions (quick, find me a belt fed crossbow loaded with witchwood bolts chased in silver) so I'm left wondering what everyone else is pouring their court actions into.

I may even resort to using court actions to train troops instead of a wage war action to feed the agitate machine...
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Osoerde (Alan) July 26, 2009, 12:23:18 AM
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but one idea I like is to make the current Regent actions require both a Character action and a Court action. This allows it to represent the efforts of a combined domain, rather then the current system where a regent can perform three actions without any assistance.

This makes a reasonable court more of a requirement for even moderately sized domains. Perhaps more interesting is the possibility for character focused domains to not pay too much attention to their court. This would apply to Wizards and for Adventure eager domains such as the Wardens. Similarly Vassals with a limited (or non-existent) court would be limited to supporting their liege with character actions, rather than spamming with a huge number of regent actions.

This does of course change the actions system quite drastically, and the cost of court/domain upkeep will have to be balanced against action costs. Perhaps the standard 1GB action cost would be considered to be included in the continuing upkeep. It would also be possible to differentiate between actions requiring more effort, thus taking more than one action. Getting down the path of Action Points here, so I'll stop rambling before I get to carried away.

Interesting.  This could explain numerous vassalage scenarios. 

On a side note, it place smaller domains at a very distinct disadvantage when facing larger domains.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) July 26, 2009, 11:38:32 AM
Interesting.  This could explain numerous vassalage scenarios. 

On a side note, it place smaller domains at a very distinct disadvantage when facing larger domains.

B/c they only have small courts?  The descriptions suggest a L3-4 court would be the minimum for most, although I'm not sure if smaller rulers can afford it.  If they do then they have a big advantage over largr domains who have too few actions to get everything done.

I'm wondering if vassals can piggy-back off a larger court - so a vassal would be able to use 1 action from the main court, rather than having to have a pitiful L1 court with significant action penalties.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Roesone/ARR (Robert) July 28, 2009, 01:07:44 AM
Unlike Andy I'm in desperate need of court actions myself.. :)) I was thinking, seeing that a regent action is of a higher grade/step/level/value than a court action, would it be possible to let a player exchange a regent action for 2-3 court actions? A regent action already includes a lot of involvement from the court like in diplomacy or war actions.

I don't think this would happen too often as regent actions are incredibly valuable and always in lack of but sometimes, albeit rarely a court action is needed more and would justify this exchange
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-SASI/Orthien Tane (Rune) July 28, 2009, 08:12:05 AM
Writing without thinking things through here, but Roberts suggestion could go both ways. As a guilder, I find that court actions are sometimes not really needed, so the only thing I really need them for is realm actions. Thus, exchanging 2-3 court actions for a regent actions would at some times be quite useful.

I dunno, this could just be silly, but it's early in the morning and I haven't had breakfast yet  ::)
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) July 28, 2009, 08:51:53 AM
What you are describing sounds like a Realm action. 1 Regent + 2-3 Court actions = Same action in 2-3 provinces. Yes, DDC goes up, but it's a modest price to pay for effectively doubling the number of regent actions you have access to.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Mhoried/Droene Kavarra (Iasonas) July 28, 2009, 10:08:21 AM
I do not know... Allowing more than the standard number of regent actions sounds dangerous.

It is one thing to say, "ok 3 court actions are left, and I have nothing to do with them. Let's do a regent action", and another thing to deliberately prepare for that scenario (having a lvl 9 court for example, when you would just have a lvl 4 court in other circumstances, just to get more regent actions). After all court actions represent a measure of the efficiency and glamor of your court. They do not represent the whole government. 
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-SASI/Orthien Tane (Rune) July 28, 2009, 10:19:57 AM
I do not know... Allowing more than the standard number of regent actions sounds dangerous.

It is one thing to say, "ok 3 court actions are left, and I have nothing to do with them. Let's do a regent action", and another thing to deliberately prepare for that scenario (having a lvl 9 court for example, when you would just have a lvl 4 court in other circumstances, just to get more regent actions). After all court actions represent a measure of the efficiency and glamor of your court. They do not represent the whole government.

That last paragraph is very true, I forgot that not everybody is having such a small court as I  ;D
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby) July 28, 2009, 01:50:21 PM
Between this discussion and the Investiture discussion, Magnificent Court and the Palace of Splendor spell are looking better and better.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Roesone/ARR (Robert) July 28, 2009, 03:57:22 PM
There's an analogy for my suggestion. A wage war action turns all military action from court to free and lets you go crazy with them. As if a regent action, a more complex type of action, makes court actions much simpler to execute. What I'm suggesting is along the same line.. To replace a more complex action for a number of actions of lesser complexity.

This is mostly for landed regents who have so much to do with their courts when you take into account the commoners, the vassals, decrees etc. I can understand that non-landed regents don't see the need for more court actions but they're vital for their landed counterpart.

As for magnificent courts and grand palaces, they're cute in theory, but for the purposes of a game that operates in 20 turn chapters, they're impractical and, unfortunately, more of an epic feat for a generation than anything one could really use. The magnificent court alone takes 15 turns to make and robs you of 1 court action per turn for the whole duration as per the new construction rules.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Mhoried/Droene Kavarra (Iasonas) July 28, 2009, 04:51:25 PM
I can definitely understand the need for such a mechanism. I simply cannot see that making sense.

I good analogy is the following:

In D&D you can occupy a higher level spell slot with a lower level spell. However the analogy is just 1:1. You cannot gain any more lower level spells. Also you cannot do the opposite, which is quite similar to what you are suggesting. More specifically, you cannot substitute several lower level spell slots with a higher level spell slot. I.e. 3 3rd level spells cannot make 1 5th level.

The same for court and regent actions. Court actions are much less intricate in nature than regent actions. No number of court actions should be equivalent to a regent action, because it does not make sense (could make sense if the regent action was a diplomacy, but a rule has to apply on all situations).

[;edit] If you have several spare court actions you do not use, just modify your court level. Or not, if you do not want the penalty in the court modiier :) [;/edit]

Just my 2 coppers worth though.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-DM Jon July 28, 2009, 05:25:22 PM
Court actions won't be exchangeable to regent actions, that much is completely certain.
 I think it's possible to use a regent action as a court action - but at a 1:1 ratio.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: DM B July 28, 2009, 06:15:08 PM
Court actions won't be exchangeable to regent actions, that much is completely certain.
 I think it's possible to use a regent action as a court action - but at a 1:1 ratio.

True; currently the exhange rate is 1:1.

But Robert has an interesting point; allowing you to turn 1 regent action into multiple court actions...should be at least 2...freeing up court time and regent time...possibly 3 to make it more appealing...for big court sessions and such...must be considered.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Points East November 18, 2009, 12:10:04 AM

Court actions won't be exchangeable to regent actions, that much is completely certain.
 I think it's possible to use a regent action as a court action - but at a 1:1 ratio.

True; currently the exhange rate is 1:1.

But Robert has an interesting point; allowing you to turn 1 regent action into multiple court actions...should be at least 2...freeing up court time and regent time...possibly 3 to make it more appealing...for big court sessions and such...must be considered.

OoC:  Perhaps two options:  2 court actions per regent action (without restriction) ~or~ 3 court actions per regent action (with restriction:  to wit, the 3 court actions must be employed on a court session)?

: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Points East March 13, 2010, 10:44:08 AM

Court actions won't be exchangeable to regent actions, that much is completely certain.
 I think it's possible to use a regent action as a court action - but at a 1:1 ratio.

True; currently the exhange rate is 1:1.

But Robert has an interesting point; allowing you to turn 1 regent action into multiple court actions...should be at least 2...freeing up court time and regent time...possibly 3 to make it more appealing...for big court sessions and such...must be considered.

OoC:

Bjørn,

Is "Extra Court Actions" now an official regent action?

: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: DM B March 13, 2010, 01:01:24 PM
Yes.
: Re: Construction/fortify - Action type
: X-Points East March 13, 2010, 07:51:46 PM
OoC:

Edit:  Feel free to delete this post.