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RoE General => The Sage (Questions & Answers) => : X-Coeranys/WD (Greg) January 12, 2009, 01:09:18 AM

: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Coeranys/WD (Greg) January 12, 2009, 01:09:18 AM
Hey everyone!

I understand the basic mechanics of Diplomacy, however, I would appreciate the shedding of some additional light on how the diplomacy action might be best utilized in the context of the upcoming Sword & Crown.  It can get a little complicated when I attempt to figure out the DDC for a particular agreement. 

For example, if I and a potential diplomacy partner are together at the S&C, what in game advantages are there compared to dealing directly with that partner (i.e. not even going to the S&C)? 

What happens if there are three or more partners to an agreement?

Which court modifiers apply (mine? theirs? each/all?).

Any unique strategic opportunities that would not have been possible (or more difficult) if it was not done at the S&C (past experience or in general)?   ;)

Anything else worthy of mentioning?   ???

Thanks!
Greg
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby) January 12, 2009, 02:55:43 AM
The main difference between the S&C and normal Diplomacy is that the S&C acts as Anuire's largest Council.  By spending one Regent action, you can attend the S&C.  You can then, as free actions, conduct as much Diplomacy as you wish with anyone also attending.  This can save a massive number of actions if you have a lot of Diplomacy to do.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Points East January 12, 2009, 03:11:02 AM

Which court modifiers apply (mine? theirs? each/all?).

OoC:

Regent Guide quote:  "Action modifiers for court affect your actions regardless of what province they take place in."

: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Coeranys/WD (Greg) January 12, 2009, 05:28:48 AM
The main difference between the S&C and normal Diplomacy is that the S&C acts as Anuire's largest Council.  By spending one Regent action, you can attend the S&C.  You can then, as free actions, conduct as much Diplomacy as you wish with anyone also attending.  This can save a massive number of actions if you have a lot of Diplomacy to do.

Wow, that's sweet!  Thanks Bobby.  :)

So, I'm curious what the record is for most successful Diplomacy actions?  I would guess that it took place at the S&C!
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Coeranys/WD (Greg) January 12, 2009, 05:31:55 AM

Which court modifiers apply (mine? theirs? each/all?).

OoC:

Regent Guide quote:  "Action modifiers for court affect your actions regardless of what province they take place in."



Thanks Brandon, that makes sense. 

For some reason I thought there might be an additional influence modifier because of the S&C.  Makes it easier that there isn't, so, good!  :)
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten) January 12, 2009, 08:14:37 AM
The main difference between the S&C and normal Diplomacy is that the S&C acts as Anuire's largest Council.  By spending one Regent action, you can attend the S&C.  You can then, as free actions, conduct as much Diplomacy as you wish with anyone also attending.  This can save a massive number of actions if you have a lot of Diplomacy to do.

Wow, that's sweet!  Thanks Bobby.  :)

So, I'm curious what the record is for most successful Diplomacy actions?  I would guess that it took place at the S&C!

Personally, I think the most successful Diplomacy action was conducted at the tip of the sword, with an army waiting just outside the door, and went along the lines of "you belong to me, now..."  ::)
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Coeranys/WD (Greg) January 12, 2009, 10:11:13 PM

Personally, I think the most successful Diplomacy action was conducted at the tip of the sword, with an army waiting just outside the door, and went along the lines of "you belong to me, now..."  ::)

LOL...  Good one!   :)

Anyone else recall a particularly tricky/complicated diplomacy from prior S&C's?
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) February 11, 2009, 04:57:15 PM
So basicly one needs only to do one Diplomacy action? Does ones regent need to, beside the Diplomacy action, to do an extra order to travel to the Imperial capital?
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-DM Jon February 11, 2009, 05:00:24 PM
We usually don't bother too much with the travel character action if you're also conducting an action in the place you're going to.

 In some circumstances where the journey is long and arduous, there will be demands for travel actions, but that will be specified by Bjørn.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) February 11, 2009, 05:19:47 PM
Then I will assume the distance from either Ilien or IHH's court does not constitute for such an extra travel action
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-DM Jon February 11, 2009, 05:32:12 PM
You assume correctly.

 Generally you could say that the travel action is included in any regent or adventure action. Only if you need to go really long or arduous distances will you have to use a travel action - and you will always be informed by the DM if this is the case.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) February 11, 2009, 08:53:22 PM
As a probably stupid question, is the S&C action 1, 2 or 3 in the season?

Do those travelling from some distance (muggins for example) need to take more than one action?

Mechanically do we need to perform diplomacy with everyone over whose roads/rivers/hills/etc we pass or is there a general 'olympic amnesty' for travelers that only the truly despicable would breach?
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-DM Jon February 11, 2009, 08:57:04 PM
As a probably stupid question, is the S&C action 1, 2 or 3 in the season?

Do those travelling from some distance (muggins for example) need to take more than one action?

Mechanically do we need to perform diplomacy with everyone over whose roads/rivers/hills/etc we pass or is there a general 'olympic amnesty' for travelers that only the truly despicable would breach?

 There are no stupid questions.

 The S&C covers the entire season. You only need one action to participate. We don't bother with what actual segment of a season actions happen in.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Diemed/Carvaloen Diem (Sheldon) February 12, 2009, 04:35:53 PM
Well, if one of your diplomacies is targeted at trying to have something occur later in that season, I would say his question about what month it happens in is relevant.

Also, his question about general travel amnesty.  I'm guessing if you stayed to the roads and just traveled through a domain unless the domain was outright hostile to travelers (closed borders, the spiderfell, five peaks, etc.) It would be assumed your travel papers and arrangements are in order.

I think where this gets hairy would be that you should make as many arrangements as possible with the destination province? 

So I would thus assume that if you reply to the chamberlain you are going to attend the S&C, getting there for most civilized provinces should be assumed.  Is that so?
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Elinie/RiD (Niels) February 12, 2009, 04:44:08 PM
I have, in various dispatches, invited my vassals as well. Is it safe to assume they will attend?

I've begun to think of the little buggers as independent NPC's who happen to pay me regency or gold, but really, each should be handled separately and I still worry this will eat alot of my focus in the game.

Especially since the current GM ruling is that there is no diplomatic treaty in place to make stuff like adding law holdings or counting on hardness or advantage dependable.

I mean, if my vassals do not show up at the S&C, then I can't make a single treaty that assumes advantage to some other actor within my domain but will have to spend later diplomacy actions on each vassal, binding them to grant advantage where I need it.

I'll not even begin to describe the issues that crops up if they start resisting this idea. (Which they probably will)  :)
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-DM Jon February 12, 2009, 04:51:29 PM
I have, in various dispatches, invited my vassals as well. Is it safe to assume they will attend?

I've begun to think of the little buggers as independent NPC's who happen to pay me regency or gold, but really, each should be handled separately and I still worry this will eat alot of my focus in the game.

Especially since the current GM ruling is that there is no diplomatic treaty in place to make stuff like adding law holdings or counting on hardness or advantage dependable.

I mean, if my vassals do not show up at the S&C, then I can't make a single treaty that assumes advantage to some other actor within my domain but will have to spend later diplomacy actions on each vassal, binding them to grant advantage where I need it.

I'll not even begin to describe the issues that crops up if they start resisting this idea. (Which they probably will)  :)

 You can order them to come and they might comply, but are you REALLY certain you want to wash your dirty laundry with all of Anuire to watch!? What if something unforeseen happens? Then they'll be able to walk right across the yard and have seditious talk with whoever happens to want to bugger you  ;D
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) February 12, 2009, 04:57:21 PM
Nielse may I suggest you make a court session at home as well as participate in the S & C? The Court Session if for making diplomacy with you vasals only. Alternately do it next round.

I for one would be real carefull washing my dirty laundry in public
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) February 12, 2009, 06:48:35 PM
Well, if one of your diplomacies is targeted at trying to have something occur later in that season, I would say his question about what month it happens in is relevant.

The Diplomacy action would generally be resolved at the end of the turn (together with all other actions), with any effect coming into force from the next turn. There are of course exceptions to this, but don't expect to finish a Diplomacy action in a rush in an attempt to get a bonus on e.g. a Contest action that you're planning 'later' in the turn.

E
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) February 12, 2009, 07:38:01 PM
Thats how I perceive it as well.

Deals about free passage/access etc done during Diplomacy action however will as I understand it, take place at once
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) February 12, 2009, 07:44:16 PM
Deals about free passage/access etc done during Diplomacy action however will as I understand it, take place at once

That could be a risky plan. You've marched your army halfway through a less than friendly realm, just to realise your diplomatic efforts are scuppered.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper) February 12, 2009, 08:35:12 PM
Even I think we mean the same.

I meant more like getting access on a character level - as discovering you are not welcome in Ilien only after you arrival.

All treaty stuff is to take place in end of season and may or may not succeed. So free passage for army and the like better be arranged in advance.


: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) February 12, 2009, 10:21:28 PM
I was indeed wondering about subsequent actions - but also about bless land spells which only last a certain number of months and so can change the DC of actions depending on which month the action is taken in, last seasons bless lands will impact month 1, maybe month 2, but Robhan's not high enough level to hope for month 3...

On diplomacy, if I have to do half a dozen diplomacy actions to get to the city then I'm already waay to late to start, and frankly given the benefit of the S&C is to take 1-2 diplomacy actions (if I even take any) for the cost of 1 action at home would have to be dragged to the dratted thing.  Sadly as a priest regent I kindof have to go to the big festivals, at least the conclave forum may heat up as we all get to try out our embassies (or complain that the roof isn't finished as the case may be) and generally grumble and whine at each other.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) February 12, 2009, 10:29:33 PM
I was indeed wondering about subsequent actions - but also about bless land spells which only last a certain number of months and so can change the DC of actions depending on which month the action is taken in, last seasons bless lands will impact month 1, maybe month 2, but Robhan's not high enough level to hope for month 3...

For Realm Spells the duration applicable to the PBeM is the one stated outside the brackets. For Bless Land this is '1 Domain Turn', which equates to the fully following the turn in which is wast cast. This is the only way to reasonably keep track of durations of spells in the game. If you use the RoE rules in a tabletop game with a few people, the more 'detailed' duration listed in the brackets could easily be applied.

On diplomacy, if I have to do half a dozen diplomacy actions to get to the city then I'm already waay to late to start, and frankly given the benefit of the S&C is to take 1-2 diplomacy actions (if I even take any) for the cost of 1 action at home would have to be dragged to the dratted thing.  Sadly as a priest regent I kindof have to go to the big festivals, at least the conclave forum may heat up as we all get to try out our embassies (or complain that the roof isn't finished as the case may be) and generally grumble and whine at each other.

I would generally not worry about getting to and from the S&C. That is of course if you're not in some far away realm explicitly blockaded by enemy forces, or generally just surrounded by enemies who's got a standing order on your head. In RoE, as in hinted in the original source material, there is generally an understanding amongst the nobility that the S&C period is one of an uneasy truce. If you're fighting against the 'New Boer', you might want to consider it a different matter.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-DM Jon February 12, 2009, 10:46:11 PM
I was indeed wondering about subsequent actions - but also about bless land spells which only last a certain number of months and so can change the DC of actions depending on which month the action is taken in, last seasons bless lands will impact month 1, maybe month 2, but Robhan's not high enough level to hope for month 3...

On diplomacy, if I have to do half a dozen diplomacy actions to get to the city then I'm already waay to late to start, and frankly given the benefit of the S&C is to take 1-2 diplomacy actions (if I even take any) for the cost of 1 action at home would have to be dragged to the dratted thing.  Sadly as a priest regent I kindof have to go to the big festivals, at least the conclave forum may heat up as we all get to try out our embassies (or complain that the roof isn't finished as the case may be) and generally grumble and whine at each other.

 I'll repeat what I said before "We don't bother with what actual segment of a season actions happen in." I.e. you don't have to bother with it either.

 And you can generally consider the travel action to be included in most regent or adventure actions. Which means it costs you 1 diplomacy action to participate in the S&C. Nothing more.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: DM B February 13, 2009, 09:43:03 AM
And traveling to the IC should be safe for all, unless someone uses effort to prevent you reaching the city :)
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) February 13, 2009, 08:13:21 PM
Thanks, I'd missed the comment on action order - which I guess is only important if doing sequential actions or opposing someone else to swipe the last rule slot or something.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: DM B February 14, 2009, 07:36:03 AM
There is no 'sequential' actions in RoE; in case of a conflict (such as two regents ruling the same holding slot) the highest MoS wins.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) February 14, 2009, 09:44:49 AM
I thought that if, say, in action 1 I did 'create holding' in action 2 I could try 'rule holding' - obviously I'd waste action 2 if action 1 failed, but thought that had been an example somewhere.

Not to worry, keeps it simple.  Makes my turn 2 easier anyway...
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Points East February 14, 2009, 09:56:32 AM

I thought that if, say, in action 1 I did 'create holding' in action 2 I could try 'rule holding' - obviously I'd waste action 2 if action 1 failed, but thought that had been an example somewhere.

Not to worry, keeps it simple.  Makes my turn 2 easier anyway...

OoC:

It is possible to ready an action.

Regent Guide quote:

"If the condition for which you have readied your action never occurs, the action is wasted, although you do not have to pay any GB/RP associated with the action."

: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-MOC/Leman States (Even) February 14, 2009, 02:44:40 PM
I thought that if, say, in action 1 I did 'create holding' in action 2 I could try 'rule holding' - obviously I'd waste action 2 if action 1 failed, but thought that had been an example somewhere.

Good point. It is possible to perform actions within a turn that are dependent on each other, and as Brandon pointed out one does not have to spend the resources on the second action if the first fails. The main issue is that there is no initiative so there is no trying to put in actions as an 'early' action in the DO to try get it done before another regent.

There are other examples as well, e.g. an Espionage action taken to support some dastardly plan during a war. This could then happen at the 'time' you hoped for within the war rounds.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: DM B February 14, 2009, 06:18:45 PM
No resources are lost, but the action is wasted. Using a lot of readied actions isn't recommended, but on occasion they are useful.
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-Tuornen/LF (Geir) March 02, 2009, 04:48:30 PM
Can one use a Bonus Character Diplomacy action to go to S & C ?
: Re: Diplomacy Actions and the Sword & Crown
: X-DM Jon March 02, 2009, 04:55:00 PM
Yep