Decree: Grant Promotion and Advisors

[X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)]

The current difference is this:

 A hireling is different from a henchman that he/she is supported by the court, whereas a henchman is solely supported by affection/loyalty/ambition towards the regent.

 A hireling will adventure, but won't go on really dangerous missions on behalf of the regent - like the henchman would.


 And that's it. I suggest remove the option for advisors to be admins and give their negative modifier to the hireling. Making the henchman even more useful than he already is.

 In addition to making it one step harder to create lieutenants, it will remove the discrepancy in the hire help rules. You may hire an aa as a hireling at first, but it's alot easier to acquire them as advisors first. However it will cost you an additional court action in the long run.


 The real problem ain't the swiftness of it all, it's the fact that advisors and hirelings are jumbled together and the difference often forgotten. So either remove the advisor altogether and call them all hirelings with different specialties - or separate the two completely is my pov.

I fully support above suggestions for rule changes. Of the two sets of suggested  changes I prefer the first (removal of the possibility for advisors to be admins)

 I would like to have the changed rules apply after a couple of seasons advance notice as to give all players the option of adjusting their plans in good time

And that's it. I suggest remove the option for advisors to be admins and give their negative modifier to the hireling. Making the henchman even more useful than he already is.

[X-DM Jon]

Which version?

 Remove the difference between advisor and hireling?
 Or add another "level" of able assistance, advisors now being the lowest level of aa?

 It's in any case Bjørn's final call, so fire away with the suggestions and/or opinions.

[X-Points East]

OoC:

An other possible manner of addressing the Hire Help "loophole":  lower (e.g., to 2 or 3) or eradicate the modifier, which hiring advisors currently provides.

[X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)]

I'm against anything that makes it more difficult to hire npc's

Anyway, what would be nice is to have some kind of transparancy regarding how well it works to establish a relationship before hiring the npc.

Someone suggested using research and adventure actions to gain a hireling. The problem is that the only modifier I have any idea of what does is the +2 modifier from the adventure... which is irrelevant if you want a good heir. It's still going to be heineously expensive.

Currently the only ones who can consider high level hirelings are guild holders, who have so much cash. Per the regent guide, it is impossible to take 20 on hire help actions.

Given the tone of the setting though, it makes perfect sense that it's nigh-impossible to bring high level npcs into the game on your side. I wish that the DC's for hiring competent assistants (generals, administrators, etc) were a little lower, but I have very little experience with this game. I understood that Bjørn removed a lot of skilled assistance from RoE I to RoE II... so I guess there's a reason for the high dcs.

[X-Osoerde (Alan)]

Able-assistance tends to be abused, I think.

[X-Coeranys/WD (Greg)]

Able-assistance tends to be abused, I think.

Really?
I wish I knew how to abuse able-assistance! 
Any specific examples?   

[X-Points East]

Henchman status required in order to become lieutenant.

OoC:  Not required.

[X-Points East]

OoC:

In general, I do not think that the able assistance rules are in need of serious revision.  Is it not sufficiently clear in Chapter 2 of the Regent Guide that there are five types of able assistant, which fit into three categories?:  advisors and hirelings; followers and cohorts/henchmen; and lieutenants.

Perhaps the Hire Help "loophole" might even be left alone, letting regents wonder what might be the consequences of swiftly promoting new advisors to henchman (or lieutenant) status.

Also, here is a question, which might be considered:  other factors (character level, administration skill, etc.) being equal, why should henchmen be more efficient administrators than hirelings?  (In the current rules, they are equally capable of performing administration . . . which might be preferable, no?)

[X-DM Jon]

Henchman status required in order to become lieutenant.

OoC:  Not required.

You're quite right, you can make lesser aa's lieutenants, but the DDC goes up.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Also, remember that hirelings and advisors count against the court expenditure, Hencmen and Lieutenants do not.

However, Henchmen are limited by the regents level, although this is not really enforced.

In a situation where a regent hoards henchmen in an obvious ploy to circumvent the court limitations, the GMs will probably step in and say no.

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

Hmm, two threads on similar topics...

The question to me is 'what can you do with them'.  I see 5 things.

1. Huff and fluff.  (My favourite of course)
2. MacGuffins to reduce domain costs.   (The apparent worry)
3. To carry out freebie domain actions.
4. Adventuring / War.
5. Heirs and spares.

These are all very different things.  #2 & #3 are domain level and the role currently appears optimised by an expert with maybe 1 good stat, skill focus on administration, with level then almost irrelevant.

#4 & #5 on the other hand want an adventurer, either elite or heroic, mid-high level preferably (certainly for #5).  At the same time as being a lot harder to get, they give a lot less - indeed a good heir is basically the NPC with most to gain by betraying the PC and conquering the domain - in the case of a powerful general possibly literally - hardly an unalloyed benefit.

I'd suggest splitting possibly the action - a henchman then at most adding +2 to an administration check or substituting for the regent in a regent action (rather than adding a free action); while the administrative hireling role reflected instead a small group of court minions adept at handling some aspect of the domain.  Alternatively the hireling role could possibly even be subsumed within the court mechanic (each GB of court spend gives you a chance to reduce one element of your costs, focus several chances on one area if you want to...)

[X-Tuornen/LF (Geir)]

I'd suggest splitting possibly the action - a henchman then at most adding +2 to an administration check or substituting for the regent in a regent action (rather than adding a free action); while the administrative hireling role reflected instead a small group of court minions adept at handling some aspect of the domain.  Alternatively the hireling role could possibly even be subsumed within the court mechanic (each GB of court spend gives you a chance to reduce one element of your costs, focus several chances on one area if you want to...)

I for one am happy with the current system. It’s a mix between strategic number crunching and the uncertainty of role-playing. I’m all fresh in this game but the current system appeals to me and I believe it works ok.

There is also the balance of how much work as system should demand from the DMs. More role-playing, more npcs often will be more work, more pure math can be less work as .xls can do the job automatically.

I like it the way it is now :-)

[DM B]

Hmm, two threads on similar topics...

The question to me is 'what can you do with them'.  I see 5 things.

1. Huff and fluff.  (My favourite of course)
2. MacGuffins to reduce domain costs.   (The apparent worry)
3. To carry out freebie domain actions.
4. Adventuring / War.
5. Heirs and spares.

These are all very different things.  #2 & #3 are domain level and the role currently appears optimised by an expert with maybe 1 good stat, skill focus on administration, with level then almost irrelevant.

#4 & #5 on the other hand want an adventurer, either elite or heroic, mid-high level preferably (certainly for #5).  At the same time as being a lot harder to get, they give a lot less - indeed a good heir is basically the NPC with most to gain by betraying the PC and conquering the domain - in the case of a powerful general possibly literally - hardly an unalloyed benefit.

I'd suggest splitting possibly the action - a henchman then at most adding +2 to an administration check or substituting for the regent in a regent action (rather than adding a free action); while the administrative hireling role reflected instead a small group of court minions adept at handling some aspect of the domain.  Alternatively the hireling role could possibly even be subsumed within the court mechanic (each GB of court spend gives you a chance to reduce one element of your costs, focus several chances on one area if you want to...)

Interesting - Simplification may be in order; the current AA/admin rules are more detailed/complex than their importance warrants.

[X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)]

Slightly different subject - what is the DDC for granting a hireling an Administration position, like Chamberlain?

[X-Mhoried/Droene Kavarra (Iasonas)]

Nice question.. Surprisingly in Regent's Guide there is no DDC specified...

I guess 10? (just like grant promotion?)