Twilightpeaks.net
RoE Development => RoE PbeM Whiteboard => : DM B November 09, 2008, 07:41:26 PM
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I've uploaded an older draft of the P&H. Things might well change, some domains and realms haven't gotten a through work through, but you should get a pretty good idea about what things will look like.
If you have any input, feel free to reply to this thread.
(the file is in the downloads section)
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I think, you should give Medoere a lot more gold... that's just my take on it.
Nah, i see Alamier is ruled by Alamier, instead of the abbrivation JS (is that still the same dude?)
Suriene didn't really evolve at all, from RoE 1 to now... in fact, looking at the PH from turn 52, i see the province leveling-thingy stands at 28, when the new one is at 23. Considering how Kaven really tried to make this place prosper (or, at least not stagnate) i can't help but wonder, especially, since Alamier grew twice (i think), in the same amount of time, from 3 to 5. (That might be some of the RoE 1 vs. RoE 2 changeover stuff, so just asking if that was on purpose.)
Otherwise, it's nice to see, that the RCS and Medoere hasn't been sitting on it's arse during the years. Getting more and more eager to start. ;D
::)
Edit: Oh, and i can see, by looking at Ilien, that i need to have a serious chat, with the IHH and CJS... Ilien belonged to ME, you geezers! Going from temple 5, to temple 3, at their expense does not make this Paladin happy! >:(
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There are no remaining growth numbers in RoE II...growth has been abstracted. And so Suriene remains at lvl 1.
Temple levels in Ilien reassigned to make things more interesting.
House Alamier has assumed regency over Alamier after House Shaeme withdrew to overlook their new Barony of Shaeme (following Carvaloen's ascension to the Dieman throne).
Remember - always - that RoE II is BASED upon RoE I, but is a completely separate game.
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There are no remaining growth numbers in RoE II...growth has been abstracted. And so Suriene remains at lvl 1.
Temple levels in Ilien reassigned to make things more interesting.
House Alamier has assumed regency over Alamier after House Shaeme withdrew to overlook their new Barony of Shaeme (following Carvaloen's ascension to the Dieman throne).
Remember - always - that RoE II is BASED upon RoE I, but is a completely separate game.
Explains things... but still... I miss my lvl 5 temple in Ilien :P
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...but more interestingly...there is a vacant temple slot in Ilien...could take you to lvl 4...
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Ahh.. so there is! Perhaps it's time to throw down the glove and call out the other temples there?
Ohh.. looking forward to getting going again. Unfortunately i have a major assignment soon, so i dread my time will be siphoned away for a spell... :'(
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...and after seizing that vacant slot, you could contest one of the others and rule it up to lvl 5...creating all kinds of excitement and conflict in the process :)
This is one of the tings that remain...tweaking various domains to make sure they have interesting GB/RP collection, and making sure there are some vacant holding slots scattered about.
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.......................BARACK HUSSEIN.........................SERIM!!
LMAO!
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Did you change bloodline scores as well, Bjorn? Robhan's bloodline was 39 at the end of the game (35 starting +4 gained after defeating Wyld) and now I see it as 29 in P&H.
Also, how can the Isilvieres hold the same rank as the king of Roesone (baron)?
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.......................BARACK HUSSEIN.........................SERIM!!
LMAO!
My tribute to the 44th US president...
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Did you change bloodline scores as well, Bjorn? Robhan's bloodline was 39 at the end of the game (35 starting +4 gained after defeating Wyld) and now I see it as 29 in P&H.
Also, how can the Isilvieres hold the same rank as the king of Roesone (baron)?
Don't think Robhan's BS was been checked yet, but I'm not certain it's starting at 39 though.
The Isilvieres held the rank when their provinces were part of Ghoere. Don't you think it'll be interesting? Actually I'm thinking about giving them the title of Marquis = Marcher Lords = Big Counts. Something like that. Ideas welcome.
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Mieres isn't updated in the draft.
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The Isilvieres held the rank when their provinces were part of Ghoere. Don't you think it'll be interesting? Actually I'm thinking about giving them the title of Marquis = Marcher Lords = Big Counts. Something like that. Ideas welcome.
Weren't they Roesonean nobles, not Ghoeran? At least, that's how it is in PS Roesone, I don't know what the deal was in RoE I.
Marquis/Lords of the Mark/March is cool for someone like Coeranys, but I don't see the point in a relatively centrally located realm. The mark separates the great kingdom/empire from other peoples not between the members of the same people (in this case, Anuireans).
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They got kicked out of Roesone for conspiring with Diemed, but found their fortune in Ghoere by marrying into a failing House there.
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And got their hands on both provinces previously in the hands of Marlae....grrr ;D
BTW, how the heck is Tristan Bellamie a law regent in Caercas? Is he a "vassal" of the crown or does that represent unruly elements in the countryside about to be hit by a SWAT team? ;)
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He has a certain following in the old capital...but mostly its to make things interesting. ARR undoubtedly would like to get rid of his influence, but if it does it might create a casus belli for TrB to call ARR names :)
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Undoubtedly :D
I'll wait for PS Roesone before I start on the other nobility. The Isilvieres definitely don't "feel" right, but one has the government one deserves hehe
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My darling wife's more than a placeholder and baby-factory this time - how intriguing! That'll be interesting. I was sad that she never got any characterization last game. Will I get any indication of what she's like before things kick off, Bjorn?
Also, who's Kaeranne Vanadaere? That's not the Iron Rider, but they're ruling his province. Did he hand over authority to a relative? Or am I remembering his name wrong?
And, dammit, it's that old deal for Royal Guild, back in action again and taking my cash. Alan, we're clearly going to have to talk.
Sidenote - the income and RP calculations for Tristan don't include those "interesting" law holdings in Roesone and Aerenwe. Are you just assuming they'll be gone too quickly for me to get anything out of them? :P
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My darling wife's more than a placeholder and baby-factory this time - how intriguing! That'll be interesting. I was sad that she never got any characterization last game. Will I get any indication of what she's like before things kick off, Bjorn?
Also, who's Kaeranne Vanadaere? That's not the Iron Rider, but they're ruling his province. Did he hand over authority to a relative? Or am I remembering his name wrong?
And, dammit, it's that old deal for Royal Guild, back in action again and taking my cash. Alan, we're clearly going to have to talk.
Sidenote - the income and RP calculations for Tristan don't include those "interesting" law holdings in Roesone and Aerenwe. Are you just assuming they'll be gone too quickly for me to get anything out of them? :P
She's a loyal and devoted wife - she's also pretty ambitious, seeing as how she too is from lesser nobility on a power trip to multi-province realm - everything a proper Anuirean lady should be like.
Kaeranne Vanadaere is the IR's sister (and heir).
I'm putting in a Royal guild deal.
Aerenwe and Roesone added to income/RP.
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Undoubtedly :D
I'll wait for PS Roesone before I start on the other nobility. The Isilvieres definitely don't "feel" right, but one has the government one deserves hehe
And the Isilvieres feel that House Roesone is an upstart house pretending at nobility.
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One of the reasons the P&H has become such a major project is because I'm filling in data for all regents shown in the sheet. That's right, they get a stat block, background and personality. Hopefully this will make NPC come more to life, but most importantly it will make Jon's life all that much easier once he gets to read it :)
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New version uploaded - some tweaks plus updates for the South Coast.
Will finish the Heartlands next.
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Note that calculation of domain maintenance will be different this time - based upon total level not number of holdings/provinces. Hopefully it will ease bookkeeping tremendously.
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Note that calculation of domain maintenance will be different this time - based upon total level not number of holdings/provinces. Hopefully it will ease bookkeeping tremendously.
Not beeing a math-wizard, and remembering the constant swearing i did, when trying to figure everything out (thanks for the patience with that, by the way), i applaud EVERYTHING which makes such things easier! :D
Yay!
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One of the reasons the P&H has become such a major project is because I'm filling in data for all regents shown in the sheet. That's right, they get a stat block, background and personality.
Good lord. I am impressed by your ambition.
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Well, I had the doc before, but it only covered remote regions not played...but now I'm filling in those NPCs that are likely to actually interact with the players ::)
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Well, I had the doc before, but it only covered remote regions not played...but now I'm filling in those NPCs that are likely to actually interact with the players ::)
Seems most promising.
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And for such a place as Alamie, the NPC descriptions and the P&H data helps build the basis for the new PS, making it a LOT easier to write.
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And I guess a lot more enjoyable to read!
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And that is clearly because Alamie is such a lovely place! The latest in tourist resorts!
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And that is clearly because Alamie is such a lovely place! The latest in tourist resorts!
Maybe I'll have to visit! Sounds wonderful. :)
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We could take a picnic, make a real trip of it!
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Note that calculation of domain maintenance will be different this time - based upon total level not number of holdings/provinces. Hopefully it will ease bookkeeping tremendously.
Doesn't this also substanially increase the cost of a domain? A realm like the IHH goes from being 3-4 GB a season to maintain, to 7-8 GB per season (assuming that the maintainence chart remains the same).
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New table
TABLE 4-6: DOMAIN MAINTENANCE
# Provinces and Holdings Maintenance Cost
1-5 0GB
6-10 0,5GB
11-15 1GB
16-20 2GB
21-25 3GB
26-30 4GB
31-35 5GB
36-40 6GB
41-45 7GB
46-50 8GB
51-55 9GB
56-60 10GB
61-100 1GB per 5 levels
101+ 1GB per 4 levels
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We could take a picnic, make a real trip of it!
People are welcome! Although such a resort can become quite quickly over-expensive.
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I am sure we can do something in the form of package deals....
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New table
TABLE 4-6: DOMAIN MAINTENANCE
# Provinces and Holdings Maintenance Cost
1-5 0GB
6-10 0,5GB
11-15 1GB
16-20 2GB
21-25 3GB
26-30 4GB
31-35 5GB
36-40 6GB
41-45 7GB
46-50 8GB
51-55 9GB
56-60 10GB
61-100 1GB per 5 levels
101+ 1GB per 4 levels
Thank you!
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Those pesky guilds with their guild AND trade holdings are sure racking up their domain upkeep :)
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I vote for special rules for guilds!
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I vote for special rules for guilds!
There *are* special rules for guilds... it's called Taxation! ;D
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Draft 3 is out. It covers the Heartlands.
Draft 4 will work out the rest of the out-of-play areas (West Coast, Northern Marches and Kiergard).
Draft 5 will include various minor edits, tweaks and fixes (some reported in by you, the players)
I hope to have Draft 5 ready by Sunday. If you have any ideas or comments (if you think soemthing doesn't make sens, or if you have an idea you think will make the game even better), they should be handed in by them. Feel free to report errors after that - but I won't be taking any player input after that date.
The final non-draft version will be made available once the game starts (there might be some minor changes based on what comes up while editing the remaining PS docs).
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The "Total Income" calculations on the Regions pages have an error in the variable income lookup function. It's searching cells A2:A12 and B2:B12 on the income pages, but needs to go up to A21 and B21; otherwise, any roll higher than 10 is simply ignored because the function can't find the required value.
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All of the Dual Holding Domains (TrB & BC, Ghieste & HOT, etc) have the income of their holdings added strangely. The income from law holdings is treated properly, while all other income is added in AFTER stability/variable income is taken into account.
In effect, part of the income will not suffer the effects of domain stability/variable income.
For instance on the South Coast tab for Arron Vaumel, Cell R4 should be =MIERES!D63+O36
While cell O4 should be =(R4*LOOKUP(Q4,Stability!A$2:A$9,Stability!C$2:C$9))*LOOKUP(P4,Income!A$2:A$21,Income!B$2:B$21)+S4-T4+U4-V4 (notice that the variable income lookup has been fixed--that is wrong throughout the entire spreadsheet, I suggest using 'Replace' to change that)
Basically, he started with 58 GB, but the -3 stability was not being applied to the income from the SAS. His income should be something like 47.8 GB.
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All of the Dual Holding Domains (TrB & BC, Ghieste & HOT, etc) have the income of their holdings added strangely. The income from law holdings is treated properly, while all other income is added in AFTER stability/variable income is taken into account.
In effect, part of the income will not suffer the effects of domain stability/variable income.
For instance on the South Coast tab for Arron Vaumel, Cell R4 should be =MIERES!D63+O36
While cell O4 should be =(R4*LOOKUP(Q4,Stability!A$2:A$9,Stability!C$2:C$9))*LOOKUP(P4,Income!A$2:A$21,Income!B$2:B$21)+S4-T4+U4-V4 (notice that the variable income lookup has been fixed--that is wrong throughout the entire spreadsheet, I suggest using 'Replace' to change that)
Basically, he started with 58 GB, but the -3 stability was not being applied to the income from the SAS. His income should be something like 47.8 GB.
Of course, this is only the case if those dual holding domains are not getting variable incomes for each holding type...
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The province of Bellam is still using the Roesone taxation system - no manor taxes and half Trade taxes. I don't know if this is intentional or not - if not, Osoer is losing out on some of my hard-earned money.
Speaking of Osoer, the IR's column on the Eastern Marches page indicates Osoer is paying him 2 GB a season, but Osoer's column doesn't show it being taken out.
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There is a lot of that going around.
For instance, the ghoerean provinces now a part of Roesone should probably be taxed the same as the other roesonean provinces. Not tax on manors and 1/2 on trade.
I am going to compile a list of this tomorrow, I think -- but only if Bjorn thinks it will be useful.
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Very useful
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There is a lot of that going around.
For instance, the ghoerean provinces now a part of Roesone should probably be taxed the same as the other roesonean provinces. Not tax on manors and 1/2 on trade.
Should they? The original compact was made with the old nobility that sponsored Daen Roesone's conquest, the new provinces are, well, "new conquest" :)
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Very useful
Ok, I spent most of the day reviewing P&H.
At the suggestion of Harvey, I am going to start with the various domain pages and work through them systematically. I will make posts for the various domains and list out the errors I see with cell references. I will not be paying attention to anything but formulas.
First up will be Roesone...look for my post tomorrow...
I think it is difficult to review the sheet without knowing the what the last iteration of
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Very useful
I think it is difficult to review the sheet without knowing the what the last iteration of
???
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I guess that Gray is referring to the iteration function of Excel, although in my read only version it is not activated.
Cannot say more...
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LMAO!
He is reffering to the last draft interation of the P&H. The one that will set holdings (expect for outright mistakes) in stone.
He was afraid that their would be significant changes and he would have a need to start over, I think. It is a pretty big job...
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There won't be any major changes.
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Except in the northern Marches & West Coast areas. So just leave them alone for now.
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Sweet we'll get to work. I am going to do Aerenwe, Mieres and Diemed today. Gray is going to do Roesone, Medoere & Endier.
The last things to get updated will be the section pages (e.g. "south coast")
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LMAO!
He is reffering to the last draft interation of the P&H. The one that will set holdings (expect for outright mistakes) in stone.
He was afraid that their would be significant changes and he would have a need to start over, I think. It is a pretty big job...
Argh. Not being a native speaker leaves one vulnerable to big mistakes :P
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Ah!
Considering that the native speaker left the important part of his sentence incomplete, we will blame that mistake on Gray. ;)
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The next version will have a fix for missing source holders:
1. Aubrae Diem Avan has sources in Brosengae, S. Taeghas and Avanil, overlapping with He, AI, and Rhu as appropriate. Think its abotu 14 source levels with a top source of 4; not up there with the movers and shakers, but a realm wizard nevertheless...
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The table has now been modified; the PETG with 66 holding levels nw ends up with a maintenance of 6GBs. A bit more than before, but about what I intended.
TABLE 4-6: DOMAIN MAINTENANCE
# Province
and Holding Lvls Maintenance Cost
1-5 0GB
6-10 0,5GB
11-20 1GB
21-30 2GB
31-40 3GB
41-50 4GB
51-60 5GB
61-70 6GB
71-80 7GB
81-90 8GB
91-100 9GB
101-125 12GB (+3 per 25 lvls)
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Total Confusion...
With 66 holding levels, how come the PETG doesn't pay 7,8, or 9 GB?
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And what a strange overlapping P&H system you have there... How does it work? ???
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Silly man, just because the table was boken...
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I am with Jon and Gray, the original table was totally in some language bjorn made up, in which Bushian-Fuzzy-Math held prevelance.
:D
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Nothing wrong with a good bit of Bushian-Fuzzy-Math on a busy thursday...
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I am with Jon and Gray, the original table was totally in some language bjorn made up, in which Bushian-Fuzzy-Math held prevelance.
:D
And this is from the man holding the "WC longest-and-most-confusing-sentence-ever" trophy!
::)
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Touche, Bjorn.
::)
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I'd like to point out that the P&H is still a draft; there will be a few changes to holding levels, so don't get all surprised if you've gained or lost a few levels.
I'll also repeat this: No provinces are blessed, and yes, there ARE vacant holding slots.
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I've added a new draft. It is STILL A DRAFT!!!
Apart from some error editing (I have't had the time to correct even the one's you've reported) there might be some MINOR tweaks to holdings, prosperity etc.
Out-of-play areas need not be accurate.
Turn 60.5 actions NOT included.
Questions/errors should be posted here.
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Draft v5 should have fixed the worst errors. Uploaded.
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New table
TABLE 4-6: DOMAIN MAINTENANCE
# Provinces and Holdings Maintenance Cost
1-5 0GB
6-10 0,5GB
11-15 1GB
16-20 2GB
21-25 3GB
26-30 4GB
31-35 5GB
36-40 6GB
41-45 7GB
46-50 8GB
51-55 9GB
56-60 10GB
61-100 1GB per 5 levels
101+ 1GB per 4 levels
Round up or down?
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Just checked through draft 5 and i think there is a substantial error on GH/HOT income. I make it 72.4 instead of the listed 52.5.
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New table
TABLE 4-6: DOMAIN MAINTENANCE
# Provinces and Holdings Maintenance Cost
1-5 0GB
6-10 0,5GB
11-15 1GB
16-20 2GB
21-25 3GB
26-30 4GB
31-35 5GB
36-40 6GB
41-45 7GB
46-50 8GB
51-55 9GB
56-60 10GB
61-100 1GB per 5 levels
101+ 1GB per 4 levels
Round up or down?
OoC:
Re: P&H draft (http://www.twilightpeaks.net/forum/index.php?topic=106.msg1180#msg1180)
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Just checked through draft 5 and i think there is a substantial error on GH/HOT income. I make it 72.4 instead of the listed 52.5.
I ended up with 72,5 - you were getting HO income and not HOT income...
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Just checked through draft 5 and i think there is a substantial error on GH/HOT income. I make it 72.4 instead of the listed 52.5.
I ended up with 72,5 - you were getting HO income and not HOT income...
If his income is going spare I suggest it is given to the conclave to be fairly distributed by the temples of Anuire ;)
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*guffaw*
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So... what's the story with domain maintenance? old table or new table? :)
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The one found in the regent guide perhaps?
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Good. Its much more favorable (probably to account for income lost from law holdings) so I had to check :D
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The first draft was just waaay to heavy for guilds...
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Every time you change the P&H, the KoH lose holdings :)
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And Alamie is nearly broke :)
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Every time you change the P&H, the KoH lose holdings :)
Most deservedly considering how little you sacrifice to Sarimie!
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Pfft.
Sarimee is a fit Goddess for thieves and money-changers. Honest folk deserve better.
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Tsk, tsk ELOÉLE is for thieves...Sarimie is for (honest) merchants...
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Haelyn is all anybody needs.
Honest, Honorable merchants worship Haelyn.
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Hear hear
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There is nothing wrong with worshiping Eloele. Just because some of us believe in a certain amount of... moral pragmatism doesn't make us bad people, just good businessmen.
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Tornilen's regency collection is still borked :) We've discussed this over email, so you know my levels and regency collection doesn't quite correspond.
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Tornilen's regency collection is still borked :) We've discussed this over email, so you know my levels and regency collection doesn't quite correspond.
Fixed; P&H #61 v2 now has you making 48 RP (added in Alamie and fixed it so that collect RP from you manors). Feeling better now pretty sorceress? ;)
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SO much better and SO pretty :D
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I believe there is some inconsistency with Bloodline Strength for IHH between P&H & IHH's DS - which is correct?
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The P&H number is correct; the Isilviere family had its bloodline improved to Major as part of the design process (happened after the PS of IHH was written).
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I have been geeking around lots with the P&H, and there are several places where something is not hooked up properly, such as a bad link to a cell reference.
How do we help you the best with these things? - I assume you make changes every turn anyway, so If I corrected anything now, you'd probably already have a new version for next turn.
If I went through it early next turn, and sent it back to you with the changes, would that help?
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That would help a lot.