Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary

[X-WIT/Toreas Kharnmoin (Rune)]

Are we back to the old discussion of paying for blessings? :-D

Makes me miss the good old times when Alan (IHH) and me (Roesone) had our written slug-fights.

[X-DM Jon]

Ah yes, the endless blessed waltz 

[X-DM Jon]

Political advantage and must are or should be in play here.

 Well then, why do you think that they aren't?

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

I'll bite my tongue and let us take that out in IC.

[X-Tuornen/LF (Geir)]

That... Or listen to your wife 


Forgiveness is a hard thing... They hung Jesus on a cross for advocating it. I know it from personal experience (the hardness of forgiveness, not crucifiction

Its not about forgiveness. Its about the LPA declaring that they will continue their sins of the past in the future. - They HAD forgiveness. They kept insisting we start talking about paying for blessings although Rashid was trying so hard not to open that issue.

I just knew they were going to be greedy bastards as usual. At the end of the day, Elinie does not need their blessings to come from LPA.

Elinie needs a temple that feels Elinie is its HOME and who will work to improve that home regardless of other factors.

There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.

Love it!   

[X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde)]

There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.

The key is to make the temple understand that they MUST

[X-DM Jon]

There's no temple in Anuire that casts blessings for free. Apart perhaps from those that wish to gain a political advantage of some kind - or who feel that they must.

The key is to make the temple understand that they MUST

 Yeah yeah, yall wanna have your cake and eat it too

[X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)]

It's about balance - the temple can't afford to bless for free in most areas, and since everyone in the province benefits some sort of contribution makes a lot of sense.  The real question is actually who should contribute - ideally everyone would do so but often only the province ruler is asked.

The contribution should take into account the other trade-offs, how grasping/generous the parties are, etc.  The Aegis routinely blesses 'for free' - but generally gets pay-back in non-financial terms like the right to raise/move troops, advantage/hardness, diplomatic support, etc.

In this case though the LPA is on its knees with a sword at it's throat - it's rebellion looks to have failed so a good deal is not going to be on the cards...

[X-DM Jon]

Come one come all! Blessings on sale from the Haelyn's Aegis! 

How quaint that a capitalistic market would find it's way into the game at the point of faith. I'm afraid people forget the fact that your ruler isn't exactly able to sit down and crunch the numbers that a blessing will give him. It's a thing of faith! People should rather consider how much they want that bountiful deal with their temple where sheep multiply and frolic happily in the green everafter...

[X-DM Jon]

But for the record. Haelyn's Aegis is absolutely an anomaly. All domains pay for receiving blessings of the realm, just as the christian received a tenth of all income through a millenia - more or less. To think you can get away without paying, is rather revolutionary... At least in the Anuirean mindset.

[X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)]

Dear Jon, please note carefully who is stating that blessing can be "free" or paid for by other kinds of services.

It happens to be the main competitor to LPA.

Making it QUITE relevant what kind of deal LPA tries to offer, especially when... blah blah... See the IC, but keep the point in mind. If the LPA has to drop their excommunication and does NOT gain a new treaty, then they are just a temple in Elinie.

And thats all it takes for them to loose their footing and slowly spiral into obscurity as HA eats them, encouraged by Rashid.

Thats the SLOW death.

The rebellion is quicker and more messy.

- And its actually not been up that Rashid is against paying. It the idea that LPA has to be paid for improving their own stomping grounds. LPA will apparently also complain about agitating now and then, if not Paid for it.

Its just not going to fly. Not in the face of injustice added on top.

And now you got me ooc ranting anyway.  /leaving this thread.

P.S. you Can calculate realm expenses fairly accurately, or the realm budget would constantly be overspending which is game technically impossible... Thus it infers intricate economic overview.

[X-DM Jon]

Well ranting is for the OoC

 Anyway, you should read what I wrote OoC in the diplomacy mail session...

[X-MOC/Leman States (Even)]

But for the record. Haelyn's Aegis is absolutely an anomaly. All domains pay for receiving blessings of the realm, just as the christian received a tenth of all income through a millenia - more or less. To think you can get away without paying, is rather revolutionary... At least in the Anuirean mindset.

I think there are two different points to this. The first would be what you consider 'paying' in this case. While playing as the OIT, the domain cast Bless Land pretty much all the time without any direct payment as seen by the other temples. Instead there were other ties between the temple and the landed regents.

Secondly I think the tenth your referring to is a large part of the regular income from temple holdings. The direct donations from regents in 'payment' for realm magic is something of a different exchange.

In addition I think the current 'standard' of paying for temples to cast Bless Land is merely a reflection of the current paradigm and culture. Over the 1500 years of history I can imagine there have been periods when the temples have been falling over each other to cast such spells, either out of piety or through the perceived prestige in doing so. Just because the current political climate is a but mercenary at best doesn't mean there have been quite different mentalities previously.

To finish of my ramblings, I think the key here is to ensure that the temples want to cast these spells, rather than feel they must. "Former Empire, slightly worn out, seeking pious temple regents to herald a new golden age of church politics" Enough ramblings from. Time to top up the wine and get going on the roast.

E

[X-DM Jon]

But for the record. Haelyn's Aegis is absolutely an anomaly. All domains pay for receiving blessings of the realm, just as the christian received a tenth of all income through a millenia - more or less. To think you can get away without paying, is rather revolutionary... At least in the Anuirean mindset.

I think there are two different points to this. The first would be what you consider 'paying' in this case. While playing as the OIT, the domain cast Bless Land pretty much all the time without any direct payment as seen by the other temples. Instead there were other ties between the temple and the landed regents.

Secondly I think the tenth your referring to is a large part of the regular income from temple holdings. The direct donations from regents in 'payment' for realm magic is something of a different exchange.

In addition I think the current 'standard' of paying for temples to cast Bless Land is merely a reflection of the current paradigm and culture. Over the 1500 years of history I can imagine there have been periods when the temples have been falling over each other to cast such spells, either out of piety or through the perceived prestige in doing so. Just because the current political climate is a but mercenary at best doesn't mean there have been quite different mentalities previously.

To finish of my ramblings, I think the key here is to ensure that the temples want to cast these spells, rather than feel they must. "Former Empire, slightly worn out, seeking pious temple regents to herald a new golden age of church politics" Enough ramblings from. Time to top up the wine and get going on the roast.

E

 Ah yes, the OIT. They had the right to law holdings in Diemed in return for all they did

 Apart from that I quite agree on your last point, wanting is the point. I wanted to cast spells and agitate to keep in the good graces of Duke Diem, so I could count on his (very) strong support if needed.

[X-Avanil/Aubrae Avan (Thorsten)]

Anyone who hasn't been slammed with a demand of 500gb from the party their currently engaged in diplomacy with (and who burned down their capital, scattered their armies and killed their father), has no right to complain in my book. Just saying

Personally I can understand the whole "bless for free" notion that rulers may have - especially if you leave out the numbers and everything becomes more intangible. I also things it stems from said rulers having little idea of, what it costs as a temple to do regularly, or assuming that said temples have more resources than they have.

That said no ruler wants to appear underfoot to their temple, and I sure as hell won't make any "donations" (it goes down a LOT easier like that, Temples. Just saying), if I can get stuff for free.

Oh, and the RCS blessed Ilien for free. Just as they Shadowwarded it at no cost to the province ruler. Up until *Issues* (tm) started down there. Not all temples expect anything in return (or their rulers are just too modest to ask)... hmm thinking on that, perhaps I should invite the RCS to stay in Avanil, no?