Author Topic: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary  (Read 11841 times)

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Offline X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2011, 01:23:25 AM »
In South Hold it's less of an issue because between me and my vassals, we ARE those provinces.  Rowena and Kaeranne kick some tithing in along with me, and the temples receive some basic rights - mostly ones that reassure them of their own security - and support in keeping those provinces THEIRS.  In provinces where things are more diverse, I could see it getting a lot more complicated.

Liborius's comments earlier, about paying for 'where', not 'if', actually bear heavily on my area.  At the start of the game, Osoerde and Bellamie were on VERY touchy ground with each other.  Meanwhile, Osoerde was negotiating with the IHH for blessings and friendship - I didn't know the terms, precisely, but I knew they included 'X provinces of Osoerde to be blessed each season."  So, I arranged a treaty with the IHH that basically consisted of me slipping them a little more gold so that Algael and Brothendar were ALWAYS two of the provinces blessed - allowing Osoerde to essentially shoulder some of the cost of the blessings FOR me, and thumbing my nose at William quite vigorously!  Not to mention maintaining the image of the IHH and South Hold, shoulder-to-shoulder, against William when needed. 

These days, Tristan and William have patched things up to one degree or another, but my treaty with the IHH still holds.  An example of agreements/laws outliving the circumstances that created them, and of how politics can inform the treaty as much as financials.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 01:25:57 AM by Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby) »

Offline X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2011, 02:47:26 AM »
I actually think that part (most in my opinion) of the issue comes from the perceived balance of power between landed regents and temple regents.

Most people would instinctively say that a landed regent has more power, and more specifically that a landed regent has more power over a temple regent than a temple regent has over the landed regent.

This perceived or sub-conscious bias in the balance of power colors any dealings between a temple and the ruler of the lands they occupy, it tends to mean that the landed regent thinks that they can make thinly disguised demands.

Personally I think the perceived bias is not true in most circumstances, if a moderate sized temple was really pissed at a landed ruler it can drive multiple (~3) provinces down 5-7 levels of prosperity in a single turn and their is not a thing a landed regent could do to stop it. Add in agitation and diplomacy with the ambitious nobles of lesser status and you can make quiet a mess.

That's not even considering the ability of a temple to go running to the CoT for assistance should the ruler try to use the military to destroy holdings, it is not in the interests of anyone in the CoT to let landed regents think they can get away with burning anyones churches, thats a privilege we reserve for ourselves.

So I'd hope that when it came to assistance for realm spells that both parties understood that they have the ability to cause the other significant pain, and then negotiated from that point.

But then again I think the entire BTHL thing is a scam, the spell does ot normally return more than it costs to cast it, and from a doctrinal point of view the CJS would prefer to teach the people how to be more productive rather than relying on divine blessings to paper over the cracks.
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Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2011, 08:24:11 AM »
If the LPA now just quietly take off their robes and put on some ArA ones, everything will be fine!

- That is, once we figure out which neighboring troops are here to help and which are here to invade.
Formerly: His Grace, Patriarch Rashid ibn Daouta, Last Imperial Duke of the Eastern Marches, Duke of Elinie, Master of Sutren Hills, Holy Paladin of Avanalae, Light of Reason.

Offline X-Avanil/Aubrae Avan (Thorsten)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2011, 09:14:28 AM »
... Wow...

Reading the latest posts in the Elinie-council. Just wow...

Suddenly I am happy not to be part of the CoT anymore, things certainly look to take an interesting twist there soon.  ::)
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2011, 10:20:32 PM »
... Wow...

Reading the latest posts in the Elinie-council. Just wow...

Suddenly I am happy not to be part of the CoT anymore, things certainly look to take an interesting twist there soon.  ::)

Given the Ilien issue the Conclave is already twisting... personally I think that most people are going to quietly toast marshmallows around Elinie for a while until they see which way the wind is blowing, there's really little point in even enemies trying to make it worse, we're doing fine on our own...
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Offline X-Avanil/Aubrae Avan (Thorsten)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2011, 10:29:50 PM »
Probably a good call.  :D
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Offline X-Tuornen/LF (Geir)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2011, 11:09:33 PM »
----- Personally I think the perceived bias is not true in most circumstances, if a moderate sized temple was really pissed at a landed ruler it can drive multiple (~3) provinces down 5-7 levels of prosperity in a single turn and their is not a thing a landed regent could do to stop it. Add in agitation and diplomacy with the ambitious nobles of lesser status and you can make quiet a mess.

That's not even considering the ability of a temple to go running to the CoT for assistance should the ruler try to use the military to destroy holdings, it is not in the interests of anyone in the CoT to let landed regents think they can get away with burning anyones churches, thats a privilege we reserve for ourselves. ------

I would say that these last wars have been rather void of evident magic or effective sanctions. But there has been loads of temple burning.
I take it now the divine retribution will commence shortly?
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Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2011, 01:27:00 AM »
I have very effective vassals. I just wish they would talk to ME more often.

Disaster has been averted. LPA is now a vassal of my vassals (in all but treaty). And I'm allowed to sit on top. Just to sit though, and talk to the world.

Tough crowd. :-)
Formerly: His Grace, Patriarch Rashid ibn Daouta, Last Imperial Duke of the Eastern Marches, Duke of Elinie, Master of Sutren Hills, Holy Paladin of Avanalae, Light of Reason.

Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2011, 03:04:47 AM »
Disaster has been averted. LPA is now a vassal of my vassals (in all but treaty). And I'm allowed to sit on top. Just to sit though, and talk to the world.

Funny, this looks like the definition of diaster (for the Patriarch anyways).
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Offline X-CJS/Ruormad Coumain (Tristan)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2011, 04:36:43 AM »
I would say that these last wars have been rather void of evident magic or effective sanctions. But there has been loads of temple burning.
I take it now the divine retribution will commence shortly?
Nobody has burned down any of my temples, if someone else has had their pillaged and hasn't made use of the CoT to exact their pound of flesh then that is their issue.

Personally I would respond strongly if people went after my faithful, and respond quite strongly.
Most Sacred Broker Ruormad Coumain, Patriach of the Celestial Jewel of Sarimie.
The wise man invests in times of plenty to ensure plenty in times of hardship.

Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: Resident Dragon becomes Resident Gary
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2011, 07:36:21 AM »
Disaster has been averted. LPA is now a vassal of my vassals (in all but treaty). And I'm allowed to sit on top. Just to sit though, and talk to the world.

Funny, this looks like the definition of diaster (for the Patriarch anyways).

Perhaps, too early to tell. Its a much slower one though, so I'll take it.
Formerly: His Grace, Patriarch Rashid ibn Daouta, Last Imperial Duke of the Eastern Marches, Duke of Elinie, Master of Sutren Hills, Holy Paladin of Avanalae, Light of Reason.