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RoE General => The Sage (Questions & Answers) => : X-Elinie/RiD (Niels) July 08, 2009, 01:31:17 PM

: Transferring Regency
: X-Elinie/RiD (Niels) July 08, 2009, 01:31:17 PM
Hello

I believe this has been up before.

It is not in any circumstance possible to transfer regency, is it? - Other than in the case of divestiture of the entire bloodline and in bloodtheft.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-DM Jon July 08, 2009, 01:44:53 PM
Only through the ceremony of vassalage is it possible to transfer RP.

The ceremony of divestiture and bloodtheft transfers the entire bloodline.

The only other way to "transfer" your bloodline is through your children.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-ETN/Maire Cwyllmie (Libor) July 08, 2009, 02:07:50 PM
And can liege transfer RP to his vassal? Lets say as measure of help in tough times?
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Osoerde (Alan) July 08, 2009, 02:23:31 PM
And can liege transfer RP to his vassal? Lets say as measure of help in tough times?

Yes, but it requires a Ceremony Action and the Investiture Realm Spell to do so.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-DM Jon July 08, 2009, 02:24:28 PM
Only if you do a ceremony of investiture to do so. (Edit: What Alan said) And it is culturally considered as "not done". Your vassal is your servant, if he needs your help you give him GB's or support him with troops. You don't (usually anyway) willingly give away an inch of your divinely granted power.
 You're obviously welcome to renegotiate any vassalage deal, f.ex. lowering the required RP payment.

 I.e. RP isn't really useful as a bargaining chip.

 You may, however, support his actions directly by using RP or GB in his favor.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Osoerde (Alan) July 08, 2009, 02:31:33 PM
Only if you do a ceremony of investiture to do so. (Edit: What Alan said) And it is culturally considered as "not done". Your vassal is your servant, if he needs your help you give him GB's or support him with troops. You don't (usually anyway) willingly give away an inch of your divinely granted power.

 I.e. RP isn't really useful as a bargaining chip.

 You may, however, support his actions directly by using RP or GB in his favor.

There are a number of cases where the Liege will grant RP to start off a domain -- perhaps covering the cost of the recoginition ceremony or something similar.  I totally concur with Jon though, in all of my years, I only happened in the rare of circumstances...

Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if Brandon conferred RP to Arlen to help with his trap, or something similar.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: DM B July 08, 2009, 02:57:54 PM
Its possible to give RP to say a vassal, to help him out during hard times. Its not very common, but it could happen. RP is not currency though, and can't be bargained with in diplo deals.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Osoerde (Alan) July 08, 2009, 03:17:51 PM
Except in Vassalage arrangements?
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-ETN/Maire Cwyllmie (Libor) July 08, 2009, 05:45:55 PM
Its possible to give RP to say a vassal, to help him out during hard times. Its not very common, but it could happen. RP is not currency though, and can't be bargained with in diplo deals.

Can it be done via free action Transfer Regency or is it more demanding?
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-DM Jon July 08, 2009, 05:57:16 PM
Transfer Regency:
You transfer a number of RPs to your liege lord as specified by the ceremony of vassalage.

 This is for vassalage purposes only.

Transferring RP requires the Transference ceremony outlined on p. 45, in addition to demanding a priest casting the investiture realm spell.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Osoerde (Alan) July 08, 2009, 07:37:52 PM
Transfer Regency:
You transfer a number of RPs to your liege lord as specified by the ceremony of vassalage.

 This is for vassalage purposes only.

Transferring RP requires the Transference ceremony outlined on p. 45, in addition to demanding a priest casting the investiture realm spell.

I was commenting on the follow Bjorn statement:

...RP is not currency though, and can't be bargained with in diplo deals.

The exception to this should when talking about vassalage arrangements, I would think.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Elinie/RiD (Niels) July 08, 2009, 08:05:03 PM
Alright, this is getting messy enough that I have to be more specific.

Can I, from a game technical perspective, grant my future spouse regency points? - Presumably to be used to increase their bloodline and thus produce a stronger heir.

There, nice and romantic.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-DM Jon July 08, 2009, 08:13:40 PM
Alright, this is getting messy enough that I have to be more specific.

Can I, from a game technical perspective, grant my future spouse regency points? - Presumably to be used to increase their bloodline and thus produce a stronger heir.

There, nice and romantic.

 Yes, with the transference ceremony + investiture realm spell.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Bellam & BC/TB (Bobby) July 08, 2009, 08:24:09 PM
That might make a fairly thematic and interesting part of the marriage contract and ceremony, yeah.  I like the idea.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Ghieste & HOT/GH (Matt) July 08, 2009, 08:37:15 PM
That might make a fairly thematic and interesting part of the marriage contract and ceremony, yeah.  I like the idea.

I don't think it is the part of the wedding ceremony any guests want to see though  ;D
: Re: Transferring Regency
: DM B July 09, 2009, 10:09:06 AM
Except in Vassalage arrangements?

Except as part of a vassalage deal; just remember that RP is entirely a meta concept that you discuss OOC.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: DM B July 09, 2009, 10:10:44 AM
Alright, this is getting messy enough that I have to be more specific.

Can I, from a game technical perspective, grant my future spouse regency points? - Presumably to be used to increase their bloodline and thus produce a stronger heir.

There, nice and romantic.

Hmm, I'd say yes. If your wife is say, from a minor House, then the marriage could conceivably bring her much prestige (RP given by you).
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy) July 09, 2009, 09:35:25 PM
That might make a fairly thematic and interesting part of the marriage contract and ceremony, yeah.  I like the idea.

I don't think it is the part of the wedding ceremony any guests want to see though  ;D

You are assuming that the wedding guests don't escort the happy couple to the bed, and wait while the marriage is sealed...  You don't want anyone saying afterwards that things weren't done properly afterall, and people used to be a lot less fastidious about many things...
: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-Ilien & PCE/GeM (Linde) July 09, 2009, 10:15:58 PM
Refering to a mail from Bjørn stating that: "Under no circumstance may RP be traded - openly or otherwise."

Isn't granting RP to anybody for any reason other than pure ooc generosity a trade where you accept something in return?

As this stands I would expect that sure a husband can grant RP to her wife as previous post states, but if the wife gives anything to the husband after that how will it be uncovered if it is a covert trade of RP?

How will it be ensured that the player of the wife doesnt feel ooc compelled to give something in return and thus creates a trade of RP covered by the "otherwise".

: Re: Transferring Regency
: X-DM Jon July 10, 2009, 12:57:12 AM
Refering to a mail from Bjørn stating that: "Under no circumstance may RP be traded - openly or otherwise."

Isn't granting RP to anybody for any reason other than pure ooc generosity a trade where you accept something in return?

As this stands I would expect that sure a husband can grant RP to her wife as previous post states, but if the wife gives anything to the husband after that how will it be uncovered if it is a covert trade of RP?

How will it be ensured that the player of the wife doesnt feel ooc compelled to give something in return and thus creates a trade of RP covered by the "otherwise".

 A technical approach eh ;)

 I think what Bjørn means is RP isn't allowed to be used as a trade good on par with GBs. Simply because it's not something you can itemize. It's rather more like prestige, honour or integrity. You can gain it or loose it, but never give it away.
: Re: Transferring Regency
: DM B July 10, 2009, 10:54:15 AM
RP is not a commodity to be traded.

GB is a commodity, as is everything else that exist in the game world. They can be traded and bargained for.

The characters of the RoE would have no concept of 'RP', it's a meta term. They could, however, under certain circumstances transfer RP back and forth.