Twilightpeaks.net
RoE Development => Regent Guide => : DM B November 27, 2008, 02:52:03 PM
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The following table will be used for every character-skill that has any bearing on the game (mostly administration, command, warcraft, spellcraft; maybe a few others).
Each character has a level that falls within a specified range; most regents and/or able assistance will be medium or high level.
Unskilled: Character is completely unsuitable for the task. Example: Wizards and Command.
Skilled: Character has some skill, but it's not his primary focus. Example: A fighter sovereign that has never shown much interest in Administration.
Expert: Character is very skilled for his level; this within his area of expertise. Example: A multi-class noble that has maxed out his ranks in Warcraft.
Master: Character has pursued the skill with singular focus; he has max ranks, one or more feats to support it, and a good ability score keyed to that skill. Example: An expert who has maxed out his Admin skill, his Int, purchased Skill Focus (Admin) and a regional feat giving a bonus to Admin.
TABLE 6-2 GENERAL SKILL LEVELS
Character level Master Expert Skilled Unskilled
Low 1-3 +8 +6 +4 +2
Medium 4-6 +12 +9 +6 +3
High 7-9 +16 +12 +8 +4
Very high 10-12 +20 +15 +10 +5
Legendary 13-15 +24 +18 +12 +6
Near epic 16-20 +28 +21 +14 +7
Epic 21+ +32 +24 +16 +8
Rhuobhe is an Epic level character that is an Expert of Command, Warcraft, and Spellcraft. He's a skilled administrator as well, thanks to his high Int.
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So in order to figure out our character's bonus, we just look at our class levels and character levels, right? There is no need to actually spend skill points, feats, etc. to justify our rating or to try and gain a high rating?
Fx. If my regents class levels are fighter 10/rogue 1 I would count him as expert in command, warcraft and skilled in administration - so my bonuses would be warcraft +15, command +15, administration +10.
SOmething like that? Or do I actually need to go in and detail skills, stats, feats, etc. to figure out where my character lies - which I understand this system was designed to avoid.
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So in order to figure out our character's bonus, we just look at our class levels and character levels, right? There is no need to actually spend skill points, feats, etc. to justify our rating or to try and gain a high rating?
Fx. If my regents class levels are fighter 10/rogue 1 I would count him as expert in command, warcraft and skilled in administration - so my bonuses would be warcraft +15, command +15, administration +10.
SOmething like that? Or do I actually need to go in and detail skills, stats, feats, etc. to figure out where my character lies - which I understand this system was designed to avoid.
You're absolutely correct.
You're still free to write out your regent in detail if you'd like, but we're using the above figures.
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How do we "guess" whether our character is a master of a particular skill, an expert ot skilled?
Will there be any guidelines as to how many of each particular degrees of skill one can choose?
I.E. Can a fighter be a master of warcraft and skilled in command or expert in both or...
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How do we "guess" whether our character is a master of a particular skill, an expert ot skilled?
Will there be any guidelines as to how many of each particular degrees of skill one can choose?
I.E. Can a fighter be a master of warcraft and skilled in command or expert in both or...
I was thinking about this a bit as well. For the most part, I think most of this is already inherent in the particular character history and/or character concepts.
For instance:
The young man once known as William Moergan has always been charismatic, a trait uncommon amongst what was once House Moergan. While a fugitive from Duke Raneach, it was only by hope in his character and his ability make allies (on a personal level) that allow him to oppose and evade the Duke's men for some many years. As he came into manhood, this manifested even more. (Heightened Ability: Charisma/Major)
After the his death at the hands of the Sworn Lovers and subsequent resurrection, William became Osoer. Through the aid of allies, William inflicted a string of defeats upon Duke Raneach, showing abnormal talent in warfare and while this was largely unexpected, it became apparent that William had manifested one of the legacies of House Osoer. (Battlewise/Major)
When Osoer & Jaison where reconciled, Osoer spent most of his time in campaigning on behalf of the Iron King -- serving as a general against the Goblin hordes.
William continues to show great brilliance at warfare, nearly dealing a tragic defeat to House Diem during the Southern Alliance/Ghoerean Kingdom war.
William is Master of Warcraft and Command, even more so due to blood. He is utterly unskilled at matters of administration, relying almost wholly on a slew of well-trained administrators. And while he is charismatic, he had a tendency to alienate domains, even though he is often well-liked and considered personable; he is only skilled diplomacy.
This was all to say, that most characters already seem to have their skill levels partly, if not largely, dictated by the actual character history.
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I like the description but I'm not sure that any character should be allowed to be master of 2 different skills. Even Rhuobhe from Bjorn's example is expert of 3 skills and master of none.
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I like the description but I'm not sure that any character should be allowed to be master of 2 different skills. Even Rhuobhe from Bjorn's example is expert of 3 skills and master of none.
Well that part is already part of the master description. "The character has pursued the skill with a singular focus"
Apart from that it's actually hard to make accurate distinctions, because it's so very dependant on character levels. Rogues and nobles are awash in skill pts, but a rogue doesn't have warcraft as a class skill. Etc. etc.
But it's clear enough that this rule needs to be syncronized with the hire help action.
F.e.x
Professional: Max Expert skill, variable skilled.
Elite: Max master skill, variable skilled.
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I like the description but I'm not sure that any character should be allowed to be master of 2 different skills. Even Rhuobhe from Bjorn's example is expert of 3 skills and master of none.
Just an example, wasn't meant to be the truth -- particularly since I have no idea what Osoers levels are like.
On a side note, it is probably very unlikely to find someone who is a master of warcraft -- it basically entails constantly going from war to war, etc. Seems a little hazardous, I think.
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Just your typical Cuiraecenite, actually :)
As far as I understand it, the level only figures in the table for the purposes of determining the exact numbers. Thus Rhuobhe's epic expertise equals the mastery of a legendary character (both +24).
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Just your typical Cuiraecenite, actually :)
As far as I understand it, the level only figures in the table for the purposes of determining the exact numbers. Thus Rhuobhe's epic expertise equals the mastery of a legendary character (both +24).
Battle and Warcraft, are severely different. While I might agree that Cuiraecenites range from battle to battle, that doesn't mean that that they wage war well.
Isn't Haelyn the God of War?
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I would expect that both faiths study war and the art of being a general - not merely battle skills. Likewise some nobles could have gone to a military academy rather than had personal tutors.
Schools like Winchester (1382) and Eton (1440) and universities like Cambridge Uni (1284) and Oxford (1598) go waaay back in the UK so some equivalent in Anuire is quite possible - likely in the city of Anuire, Avanil, Dieme or Boeruine. Given the cultural emphasis on war I'd expect it to be taught at such places.
Of course, whether it is taught well is another question. :P
In terms of danger, the general may be relatively safe - they likely avoid much of the direct fighting, are likely to be captured and ransomed not killed out of hand (Brandon Boer aside), etc. I'd expect generals to have a better life expectancy than champions...
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I would expect that both faiths study war and the art of being a general - not merely battle skills. Likewise some nobles could have gone to a military academy rather than had personal tutors.
Schools like Winchester (1382) and Eton (1440) and universities like Cambridge Uni (1284) and Oxford (1598) go waaay back in the UK so some equivalent in Anuire is quite possible - likely in the city of Anuire, Avanil, Dieme or Boeruine. Given the cultural emphasis on war I'd expect it to be taught at such places.
Of course, whether it is taught well is another question. :P
In terms of danger, the general may be relatively safe - they likely avoid much of the direct fighting, are likely to be captured and ransomed not killed out of hand (Brandon Boer aside), etc. I'd expect generals to have a better life expectancy than champions...
I think Gray is thinking more in terms of alignment. I don't really imagine chaotic-natured entities doing so well had organized warfare. In a number of cases, RoE also seems to portray this, such as is the case with goblins armies, gnoll armies and the like. They have viciousness, they have cunning, but they don't often have well-constructed battle-lines, etc, etc.
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I could imagine Leman States being a master of command and Robhan Khaiaren a master of warcraft with both of them being experts or skilled in the other of the two war skills.
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I don't imagine any regent being a master of any skill really. I would imagine that the dedicate neccessary for such is well-outside the realities for any regent, whom always have a need to cross-specialize or at least be knowledge in the basics of many things.
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How do we "guess" whether our character is a master of a particular skill, an expert ot skilled?
Will there be any guidelines as to how many of each particular degrees of skill one can choose?
I.E. Can a fighter be a master of warcraft and skilled in command or expert in both or...
Bjørn we need some guidelines to go with on this.
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OoC:
Suggestion:
Point-Buy Method.
Each skill level above unskilled costs one point.
Heroic characters have five points, with which to buy skill levels.
Perhaps heroic characters above a certain level could have access to an additional point.
[Should more than four skills be deemed relevant to RoE II, a modification of the above might be in order.]
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I know I have at least one Knowledge skill which would impact Adventures and certain other actions - enough to be relevant, and to need a rating attached.
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How do we "guess" whether our character is a master of a particular skill, an expert ot skilled?
Will there be any guidelines as to how many of each particular degrees of skill one can choose?
I.E. Can a fighter be a master of warcraft and skilled in command or expert in both or...
Bjørn we need some guidelines to go with on this.
This is like the least important thing that needs to be addressed. Use your imagination + character description + what I've stated previously (it can't be THAT hard - its onyl a few relevant skills and only four 'levels' of competence).
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It may be the least important, but it's the one question that keeps coming up.
Anyway; people - enter your suggestions for the relevant skill levels your aa's have and we'll approve them as we go along.
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It keep coming up because players like to focus on the little things...
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I don't imagine any regent being a master of any skill really. I would imagine that the dedicate neccessary for such is well-outside the realities for any regent, whom always have a need to cross-specialize or at least be knowledge in the basics of many things.
Well, many Noble/(Any warrior type) might by masters in Warcraft or Command or both.
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Well I guess you could solve it in two ways:
Just decide on the skill levels based on the description of the character in question (maybe add to that description if you feel it needs more clarification, just let us know - write it in red or something).
Or
Create the character as per actual 3.5 D&D rules, then you can cross-reference the list and see what skill ranges you fall within. In that way a 3rd level character may be master in one thing, but only expert once reaching level 5 (since the skill won't change).
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Mastery is very difficult to come by. Realistically how many people playing this game are the 'master' at something? I am thinking that no one is.
If people use their common sense, keep an eye towards the meaning of these skills, and are mindful of descriptions and history, I fail to see a reason why 'rules' are needed.
Rules are always neccessary for munchkins, but honestly, can't people just use their imaginations?
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Why not just make up the character sheet? Am I missing something? The real problem is getting a PC who can cast realm spells - the skills required will severely impact skills applied to domain rule and kiss goodbye to adventure or focus feats... I wonder if there are any mage/priest regents who couldn't cast realm spells if they make their PC sheet? 3 feats, 8 ranks in three skills - <ouch> (P202).
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I have moderated my opinion above with a little research. To qualify as Master you have to have max ranks in the skill (duh), but you also need Skill Focus and a Regional Feat, in addition the key attribute has to be high, and here I'm guessing 16+.
Thus, its a significant sacrifice to Master a skill, but likely for career professionals. For Regents, well, depending on several things, they might be more evenly spread out in general.
First off, throwing a 16+ in intelligence if you are not a rogue or wizard is not common, secondly spending two feats in addition, is quite tight for most non-fighter builds of medium levels.
Being an Expert seems fairly approachable though, max ranks, a sturdy ability score (14?) and you can do it.
Skilled looks like either a high attribute and a x-class skill, or a class skill and fewer skill points.
Unskilled is close to plain attribute or very few skill points and a low attribute.
And using the point-buy rules for most of the Regents is not possible, our bloodscores are way too high to be able to match with a new character, they'd be severely gimped. - I suppose you can just ignore the bloodline score when building, but its impossible to be dead-on accurate.
Rather, count available feats and skill points and adjucate from the regent description how his array would be arranged.
My input anyway. :)
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I have to admit I haven't thought too much about the technicalities of character builds for my regent or any AA's. Unless a character is deemed to have single mindedly pursued one path I've assumed these heroic types will be expert in a couple of areas, skilled in a few more and unskilled in a few more still, driven by personality description meets character levels. Trying to work out feats and skill ranks is way too complicated ;D Anyway, I'm a bit hazy on what the added birthright character skills are anyway - are they here in the site somewhere?
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Administration (Int; Trained Only) [Class Skill: Cleric, Guilder, Magician, Noble, Rogue] –
Allows a character to cut domain costs.
Command (Cha) [Class Skill: Barbarian, Fighter, Noble, Paladin, Scout] – Allows a character
to improve the abilities of units he commands during the battle stage.
Warcraft (Int) [Class Skill: Barbarian, Fighter, Noble, Paladin, Scout] – Allows a character
to act well within the framework of the campaign stage.
Works on WIS for 1 feat
Unskilled: Character is completely unsuitable for the task. Example: Wizards and Command.
Skilled: Character has some skill, but it's not his primary focus. Example: A fighter sovereign that has never shown much interest in Administration.
Expert: Character is very skilled for his level; this within his area of expertise. Example: A multi-class noble that has maxed out his ranks in Warcraft.
Master: Character has pursued the skill with singular focus; he has max ranks, one or more feats to support it, and a good ability score keyed to that skill. Example: An expert who has maxed out his Admin skill, his Int, purchased Skill Focus (Admin) and a regional feat giving a bonus to Admin.
I've ripped these lines from different posts from the GM's. Its not a big issue for them, but I suppose we players like to geek out on these details. :)
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Administration (Int; Trained Only) [Class Skill: Cleric, Guilder, Magician, Noble, Rogue] –
Allows a character to cut domain costs.
Command (Cha) [Class Skill: Barbarian, Fighter, Noble, Paladin, Scout] – Allows a character
to improve the abilities of units he commands during the battle stage.
Warcraft (Int) [Class Skill: Barbarian, Fighter, Noble, Paladin, Scout] – Allows a character
to act well within the framework of the campaign stage.
Works on WIS for 1 feat
Unskilled: Character is completely unsuitable for the task. Example: Wizards and Command.
Skilled: Character has some skill, but it's not his primary focus. Example: A fighter sovereign that has never shown much interest in Administration.
Expert: Character is very skilled for his level; this within his area of expertise. Example: A multi-class noble that has maxed out his ranks in Warcraft.
Master: Character has pursued the skill with singular focus; he has max ranks, one or more feats to support it, and a good ability score keyed to that skill. Example: An expert who has maxed out his Admin skill, his Int, purchased Skill Focus (Admin) and a regional feat giving a bonus to Admin.
I've ripped these lines from different posts from the GM's. Its not a big issue for them, but I suppose we players like to geek out on these details. :)
Bjorn examples are meant to give people an opportunity to describe the skillset of their character through abstraction.
IMO, D&D lends itself to too much power-gaming. This abstraction allows for more character-based decisions for the skill-set.
Osoer, for instance, is a Fighter/Noble/Scout -- Technically he can have a pretty decent diplomacy score, but I am going to gimp it because as a rule he has never been very good at negotiating -- though he is often well-liked on a personal level.
As for administration, he spent most of his life running and gathering allies, not trying to figureout ways to save a few pennies here and there, hence I am planning on making him totally unskilled at Administration.
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Very, very, very few characters a Masters at anything, and if they are almost never at more than one skill. So basically, if you're really good at something, you're an expert. If you're just competent, the you're skilled. If you're not into the skill at all you're unskilled.
Character LEVEL doesn't figure into this - a 1st lvl character COULD be a Master of something, as could a 20th lvl character.
Other skills are also possible, like Spellcraft, but more on that later.
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Hehe, I think I'll have to... adjust... the expected skill levels of my assistants then. ;D
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Hehe, I think I'll have to... adjust... the expected skill levels of my assistants then. ;D
I took the time to actually enter the Admin skill for at least some of the domains; a few masters, a lot of experts, some skilled.
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I found that I may too have viewed, partly by wishing it to be true, some NPCs to have other skills then they do.
How to get a view closer to fact? Should one re-make the NPC "flesh-out" and be more sober, or will the fact be published in some form? Or do maybe such information simply only present itself by experience over the course of several seasons?
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To repeat:
AAs are minor additions to the domain; if you want to spend time and energy detailing them, fine, that is your prerogative. But I'm not spending any time on it. SO feel free. I can always censure things later, or reward people for good contributions to the game.
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...so option 3# then I will guess :
"such information simply only present itself by experience over the course of several seasons."
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Here are some guidelines as to how much AAs can contribute to adventures.
Low - Absolutely nothing; they can offer advice and administrate, but not add anything to adventures.
Medium - These are a cut above average, but still can perform great miracles. IF the AA has suitable skills/powers AND he rolls well on the adventure action, he might give a supportive bonus. Also, since his level is probably fairly close to that of the regent and other AAs he can join in on real adventures and actually contribute to their resolution.
High - These rare AAs are true heroic individuals (or at least VERY good at their non-heroic jobs). They can regularly solve events by adventure and usually give a supportive bonus when they are assigned such a role (but the bonus is usually bigger if they have very suitable skills for the task at hand). Also they are quite tough, and will tend to survive even dangerous adventures.
Very high - Same as high, only even more skilled. Not many domains have AAs of this level. Survival rate is very good except against the most horrible of enemies. Tuornen does in its elf general, but there are not a lot of others.
Legendary - Right...there are some legendary NPCs out there, but they are exceedingly rare. Given the low level, low magic nature of the RoE campaign these characters can start to do thinks that are quite beyond characters of other levels.
Near-epic - Even more right...the number of 16+ level characters is so small as to be non-existent.
Epic - Hahaha...try hiring the Gorogon!