Author Topic: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms  (Read 18071 times)

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Offline DM B

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2009, 11:11:51 AM »
If any goblins do worship the HA (and I'm not saying there are any) then they would do so against the wishes of the church - believe me, the HA might be a Good temple, but it also has ages long relations with goblins, and there can never ever be any peace between them. Actually, one of the HA's holy tasks is killing such filth, so that Anuire does not have to suffer their depredations.

What about IHH? It is not many years ago the northern parts of Roesone was raided by goblins and then held for a year by the same goblins and since IHH is state faith in Roesone its unlikely goblins receive positive treatment.

Goblins have been a problem around the Spiderfell for thousands of years, and after the IHH became a factor in Roesone they have had their dealings with them as there. In older days the goblins also raided from the Grey Hills, with bellam being one of their last holdfasts there (but they were cleared out centuries ago). So the IHH has reason enough to hate goblins, but nevertheless not nearly to the extent the HA has.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2009, 11:33:57 AM »
Meaning IHH do not advocate for actual genocide of goblins as HA seems to do?
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Offline DM B

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2009, 01:09:11 PM »
Only the killing of goblins that constitute a threat - so any goblin raider found in Roesone should be killed, but beyond that the IHH doesn't hold seremons condemning the goblins as the spawn of darkness.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2009, 01:58:13 PM »
Can I assume that goblins that raid but escape back to their lair is also to be killed?
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Offline DM B

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2009, 02:45:33 PM »
Definitely - too bad they hide in the Spiderfell  ;D
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Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2009, 03:25:27 PM »
Can I assume that goblins that raid but escape back to their lair is also to be killed?

I'm curious how you would identify one goblin raider in a group of 10. Does he have war-paint or a stamp in his passport saying "Roesone bordercontrol"?  :D
I mean, it's not like those who didn't go all run around in one of these...  ::)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 03:28:47 PM by Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten) »

Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2009, 04:26:24 PM »
Lol.

Thats why Spiderfell has to be subdued and controlled by the forces of good.

Who volunteer for doing the Lords work and kick goblin arse in the Fell?

By Lord I mean the All Farther, Divine Haelyn
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2009, 09:44:57 PM »
If any goblins do worship the HA (and I'm not saying there are any) then they would do so against the wishes of the church - believe me, the HA might be a Good temple, but it also has ages long relations with goblins, and there can never ever be any peace between them. Actually, one of the HA's holy tasks is killing such filth, so that Anuire does not have to suffer their depredations.

oookaay, well so much for being diplomatic...  Rashid, those warpigs have to go!
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2009, 10:42:45 PM »
Meaning IHH do not advocate for actual genocide of goblins as HA seems to do?

Actually neither I nor my C's have been arguing this - just that people recognise the 'danger' side of their hill-kittens.  Unfortunately while I've bent over backwards to make my C's compromise without losing sight of the core 'not just nice people raised bad' point the same is not true of others - which in turn makes it harder for Robhan to compromise later.

Some of the regent's letters beg the question 'what's in it for you?' - the answer is rarely pretty.  Is Robhan the only one with a few thousand followers at his back looking for a sign that a new leader is required? Man, I've seen some of Robbie's merrie twoopers and believe me you're all better off with him around and grouchy than replaced by a real militant who sees the need for the fires of truth in such dark times!  Excessive tolerance breeds bigotry amongst the uneducated and superstitious...
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Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2009, 11:44:07 PM »
OOC: Remember that goblins might also be reading the missives in the IC thread... It'd be a really bad move for a regent of goblins to IC, in public, say that goblins are to be kept in a state of servitude to humans.
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2009, 01:13:29 AM »
No they wont read it but another regent might choose to tell them
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Offline X-IHH/Wallac Isilviere (Kasper)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2009, 01:17:27 AM »
Some of the regent's letters beg the question 'what's in it for you?' - the answer is rarely pretty.

Correct and my guess is Niels like to be able to aquire cheap goblin troops since his army stays in Osoerde with their general not doing the bidding of Eiliens ruler.

Niels if you read this realize that you having goblins in your army can get real ugly PR wise and result in a couple of wars against you

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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2009, 09:51:17 PM »
Well Kasper, goblin armies probably start out fairly ugly from a human perspective - but then look at my guys, a week in the field wearing plate steel - I wouldn't want to be downwind of them, so whose to talk?

As for wars, it will probably get very pragmatic unless Rashid really gets up someone's nose - the only people likely to be bothered are neighbours, Mhoried certainly has better things to do, Coeranys is on the border with the dwarves and chimereon so focused elsewhere, the ghoeres are to small to start something... as long as Rashid doesn't get too carried away with trying to change the world out of sight will be out of mind - the bloodtheft issue is actually more dangerous for Rashid since it poses a direct personal threat to every scion, which means the cream of the nobility.

On the plus side for Rashid, it is likely that the goblins elsewhere in Morcosoer will swiftly realise that they have a better chance in the Sutren Hills than anywhere else - so Robhan gets to deal with the goblins who stay (the thick ones) or aren't let in (the violent ones) and Rashid gets the smart ones immigrating to work his mines, everyone is happy...

On goblins reading the forums, most posts are direct regent:regent missives, a few might get intercepted but not many - and few interceptors would be interested in rabble rousing amongst goblins.  The journal is more open but probably still read only by the intelligentsia (which is why the field marshal is replying not Robhan).
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Offline X-Elinie/RiD (Niels)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2009, 11:19:47 PM »
OOC:

Wait, what? - Rashid has not spoken pro-bloodtheft at any point.

He wanted to start a debate on the issue, but the only ones answering were the fanatic religious wings...

Of course, said wings try to suppress even discussing the topic, but still. To go hunting for blood, as the explicit purpose, is anathema to Rashid and his ethics.

On goblins intercepting the messages, since all realms have access to the journal, it means quite a number of copies exist, dramatically increasing the chance of interception.

It doesn't matter much for the fanatics, since their view is already well known by goblins. I wouldn't be surprised if most goblins just turn and run if they see a HA banner over a group of approaching riders.

But anyone wishing eny kinds of diplomatic actions with goblins should probably keep a neutral profile. But here again, the fanatics try to pressure a clear policy that reflects their own beliefs.

The next step, would be if the fanatics put out a decree that everyone had to make their official opinion known or suffer some consequence. (Hell, Kasper threatens war based on a few letters, not to mention he has gone out of his way to ingame insult Rashid.)

Its a very loose foundation for a war to be waged on.

The "whats in it for you" is actually fairly simple, and should be perceptible for anyone who knows Rashid. He is a LN Paladin. If an otherwise innocent, swears fealty, and does nothing to betray that, then it is his actual duty to protect them. - It doesn't have to be the only reason, but it truly is the primary one.
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: MIRROR - Goblins as citizens, challenges of modern realms
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2009, 01:24:54 AM »
OOC:

Wait, what? - Rashid has not spoken pro-bloodtheft at any point.

He wanted to start a debate on the issue, but the only ones answering were the fanatic religious wings...

Of course, said wings try to suppress even discussing the topic, but still. To go hunting for blood, as the explicit purpose, is anathema to Rashid and his ethics.

On goblins intercepting the messages, since all realms have access to the journal, it means quite a number of copies exist, dramatically increasing the chance of interception.

It doesn't matter much for the fanatics, since their view is already well known by goblins. I wouldn't be surprised if most goblins just turn and run if they see a HA banner over a group of approaching riders.

But anyone wishing eny kinds of diplomatic actions with goblins should probably keep a neutral profile. But here again, the fanatics try to pressure a clear policy that reflects their own beliefs.

The next step, would be if the fanatics put out a decree that everyone had to make their official opinion known or suffer some consequence. (Hell, Kasper threatens war based on a few letters, not to mention he has gone out of his way to ingame insult Rashid.)

Its a very loose foundation for a war to be waged on.

The "whats in it for you" is actually fairly simple, and should be perceptible for anyone who knows Rashid. He is a LN Paladin. If an otherwise innocent, swears fealty, and does nothing to betray that, then it is his actual duty to protect them. - It doesn't have to be the only reason, but it truly is the primary one.

Doesn't this assume that the laws equally apply to goblinoids. I don't think that it is neccessarily the case -- afterall, I would point out that the Daouta don't even marry outside their own race, why would they neccessarily offer rights to to goblinoids?
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