Author Topic: Noble status of clergy  (Read 4604 times)

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Offline X-IHH (Murphy)

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Noble status of clergy
« on: November 23, 2008, 10:26:00 PM »
I was wondering what sort of "exclusion" laws or customs there are in place with regards to people of noble birth who take the cloth?  Is, for instance, Wallac still considered a member of his family with all the rights and prerogatives that that conveys?  If he is, what is the typical view and/or expectations with regards to nepotism? 

The book that I'm currently reading has a large amount of the narrative take place in the 17th Century Italian Catholic church, so there are literally dynasties that exist within the church itself.  So the question came to mind.

Offline X-Roesone/ARR (Robert)

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Re: Noble status of clergy
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2008, 10:45:52 PM »
My 2 cents

IC: You better remember that in Roesone you serve the people of Roesone and their lawfully apointed and divinely enthroned ruler, Aruvor, not the family of Isilvieres :)

OOC: Historically, the medieval clergy kept their ties with the family and used their clerical assets and powers to further their dynastic interests and hurt the enemies of the family. However, bishops and abbots perceived their territories as "theirs" and "God's," not as goods to be distributed to the family. A bishop was just as greedy to get his hands on as much land and castles as possible to use for his own needs, like building bigger cathedrals, purchasing better relics than his peers etc. Of course, some money would/could be sent to a brother baron, or diplomatic aid could be provided (mediation in feuds, for instance or a good word with the ruler), but outright donations of large amounts of property and/or income were not that common, both because the bishop needed his assets to "succeed" in his clerical world and because there wasn't a shortage of ambiitous underlings willing to send word to Rome that the Lord's assets are being embezzeled. True, there is no Pope in BR (well, you're your own Pope, sort of, and the Pointiff is mostly a titular ruler :)) but this is a setting where clerics cast spells and gods can be somewhat meddlesome (and Bjorn will concoct all sorts of nastiness if you abuse your position hehe). I had problems with my own clergy as HA when they thought I was straying from the orthodoxy and dealing too much with IHH so its safe to assume that your clergy (who are also members of various noble families) wouldn't take kindly to you lavishing your relatives with "Haelyn's property."
That still doesn't mean you shouldn't be favorable to them, of course, but you should know and weigh all the pros and cons, especially in this game.

As I said, my 2 cents as a player. :)
Arvour Raemel, by the Grace of Haelyn Baron of Roesone etc, Champion of Cuiraecen

Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Noble status of clergy
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 11:24:47 PM »
You will notice that almost immediately after having obtained power over the Orthodox KoH, Ser Nichaleir decided to turn his realm out on a path of it's own.

 "Could it possibly be because his familly is predominantly Avanese!? Traditionalist (WIT) - remember Rhuobher Nichaleir? And that the OIT is primarily Dieman? Family politics perhaps? Is Nichaleir Avan's man - just like his cousin (allegedly) was?"

 The above was an excerpt from the book of disgruntled Orthodox propapanda.


 Just an example of how you can view the world in terms of family ("Never trust a stinking [insert family name here]!") - as you can in terms of religion, nation, hue, social class etc. etc.


 However; when you take the cloth you're no longer considered a nobleman, so Wallac wouldn't be able to become head of the Isilviere family (and thus their holdings) - at least not per tradition, but as we all know tradition can be changed and played around with. It just means you won't win any popularity contests if you try it.

Offline DM B

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Re: Noble status of clergy
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2008, 11:31:48 PM »
There is a reason why so many of the church rulers also have noble Houses ruling provinces here and there - Haensen, Maricoere, Nichaleir, Khanmoin, Armiendin...the list goes on. And that reason is because the Lord of Strife likes conflicting motivations :)

For the IHH they have an Isilviere ruling and a Bellamie as second in command; two major houses in the IHH's sphere of influence...who hate each others guts :)

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Offline X-DM Jon

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Re: Noble status of clergy
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 11:33:56 PM »
Ah, the fun they must have when a new Prefect is elected!

"Will the real diplomacy player please stand up!"