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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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New structures
« on: January 25, 2009, 11:28:37 PM »
Hmm, I found myself at a loose end - well, looking for an excuse to avoid work, so made some structures.  Given Bjorn is busy, would anyone care to have a look and say if they seem unbalanced, useless, opposed to game philosophy, etc.  Thanks.

Academy
DDC   10
Build Cost   10
Upkeep   0.25
Benefits   +2 on all hire help actions.  The regent can spend RP on a 1:1 basis to influence the chance to hire help.  Using the academy costs 1 RP per action.
Description   An Academy is a centre of practical learning and training which gathers students from far and wide.  While the students are usually the ones hired.  Students are mainly low level characters, a few of medium level.  Higher level tutors and masters may be available on occasion (DMs bribery recommended).  The regent controlling the structure can permit other regents to use the Academy to attempt to recruit, while they control access however they have no influence over whom the foreign regent speaks…
Special   At the cost of a court action a season for .25 GB and 1 RP, the regent can offer a scholarship, in this case the above modifier, court/stability modifier, and half of any additional RP spent accumulate for up to 3 attempts to hire the help. (i.e. with +1 court/stability and 4 RP spend each time the modifier would go: +7, +12, +17, +17, +17, etc).  A failure by more than 10 wastes any accumulated bonus.
Modifiers   An academy may specialise in a particular field – warriors, priests, rogues, wizards or experts.  This specialisation costs a further 10 GB and 0.25 GB maintenance, but increases the benefit to +5 with respect to that class only.  Other classes are less likely to be available in a specialised academy.
Inspired by:   Small palace.

Proving grounds
DDC   10
Build Cost   10 GB
Upkeep   0.25 GB
Benefits   One active/garrisoned unit kept in the province all year gains 1 xp.  If an attempt is made to improve a unit, and the DDC is exceeded by 10 or more, the unit gains 2 xp not just 1.
Description   A military academy specifically built to provide excellent training for any unit.  The proving grounds are typically built as an extension of a fort or other substantive structure.
Inspired by   Pure guesswork

Shrine of the Patron
DDC   18
Build Cost   50 GB
Upkeep   0.5 GB
Benefits   +4 to all agitate actions in the province. Once per year cast Celestial Boon as a free action for 5 RP.  The DDC of any contest action of the temple is increased by +2.
Description   Every faith has one key individual who first laid down the foundations of its existence, Fitzalen, Torgoed, their words and deeds echo in the hearts of all those who hold to their creed.
Note   Only one per faith barring the creation / existence of a schism in the faith (not recommended).
Inspired by:   Chapel

Theatre
DDC   10
Build Cost   10
Upkeep   0.25
Benefits   +2 on all agitate actions in the same province. The regent can choose to use agitate as a free action once a season in place of their normal class free action.
Description   A theatre is a cultural centre, sometimes a house of song and music, sometimes a debating chamber and sometimes the blood and violence of an arena - the type is different for every culture.  Whatever form it takes the theatre allows the negative feelings of the population to be released harmlessly and encourages positive messages – if the manager wishes to support the province ruler…
Inspired by:   Chapel

Grand Mines
DDC   12
Build Cost   25
Upkeep   0.25
Benefits   1 extra level of trade holding is available in the province above and beyond the province level.
Description   Grand mines can be built only in mountainous terrain. They reflect deep mines, vast pumps, and canals to carry away drained water.
Inspired by:   Twin towers of Ilien

Mebhaighl nexus
DDC   12
Build Cost   25 GB or 100 RP (building at 12 RP per turn).
Upkeep   0.25 GB or 1 RP.
Benefits   1 extra level of source holding is available in the province above and beyond the normal maximum level for the province.
Description   A mebhaighl nexus is an attempt to encourage the formation of a Caermebhaighl focal point.  Over months a wizard focuses the mebhaighl of the land into a single carefully chosen and shaped focal point (generally some exceptional natural phenomenon).  During this time the mebhaighl must not be disturbed by the use of realm magic within the province or the focus is likely to be torn asunder.
Note   It is said to be much easier to create a Mebhaighl nexus around some exotic phenomena – dragon bones, certain elven ruins, vibrant underground caverns, etc.
Inspired by:   Twin towers of Ilien

Hanging gardens
DDC   14 (12 with dwarven knowledge of stoneworking)
Build Cost   25 GB
Upkeep   0.25 GB
Benefits   1 extra level of manor holding is available in the province above and beyond the normal maximum level for the province.
Description   Where normally steep hills are useless for farming, vast terraces served by fine aqueducts can turn the most barren  scrub into verdant fields of vines and other shallow rooted crops.
Note   Hills or low mountains only.
Inspired by:   Twin towers of Ilien
Robhan Khaiarén
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2009, 10:45:26 PM »
Academy
Special   At the cost of a court action a season for .25 GB and 1 RP, the regent can offer a scholarship, in this case the above modifier, court/stability modifier, and half of any additional RP spent accumulate for up to 3 attempts to hire the help. (i.e. with +1 court/stability and 4 RP spend each time the modifier would go: +7, +12, +17, +17, +17, etc).  A failure by more than 10 wastes any accumulated bonus.

Hmm, I chucked that line in late - thinking about it it is maybe too much, although I'd like to think there could be some bonus for trying to recruit over several rounds, maybe just amortise RP spend at 50% reducing balance and only allow 1 try a season...
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Offline X-Medoere & RCS/KE (Thorsten)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 11:06:54 PM »
Academy
Special   At the cost of a court action a season for .25 GB and 1 RP, the regent can offer a scholarship, in this case the above modifier, court/stability modifier, and half of any additional RP spent accumulate for up to 3 attempts to hire the help. (i.e. with +1 court/stability and 4 RP spend each time the modifier would go: +7, +12, +17, +17, +17, etc).  A failure by more than 10 wastes any accumulated bonus.

Hmm, I chucked that line in late - thinking about it it is maybe too much, although I'd like to think there could be some bonus for trying to recruit over several rounds, maybe just amortise RP spend at 50% reducing balance and only allow 1 try a season...

There's potential in a lot of this, though some of them seem quite strong.
How about Officer's Academy (Westpoint)? Or, if you wish to use the proving ground kinda theme, make it focused on a particular unit (dragoons, pikemen, etc.) or unit subtype (cavalry school, infantry, archers, etc.).

That way you could get bonus xp for having the structure, but not boost your entire army (there's only so much you can gain from training I guess, if you don't specialize in certain fields, and training infantry,cavarly and archers in various aspects at the same time would be very taxing).

Offline X-Points East

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Re: New structures
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 11:34:40 PM »

Hmm, I found myself at a loose end - well, looking for an excuse to avoid work, so made some structures.  Given Bjorn is busy, would anyone care to have a look and say if they seem unbalanced, useless, opposed to game philosophy, etc.  Thanks.

Academy
DDC   10
Build Cost   10
Upkeep   0.25
Benefits   +2 on all hire help actions.  The regent can spend RP on a 1:1 basis to influence the chance to hire help.  Using the academy costs 1 RP per action.
Description   An Academy is a centre of practical learning and training which gathers students from far and wide.  While the students are usually the ones hired.  Students are mainly low level characters, a few of medium level.  Higher level tutors and masters may be available on occasion (DMs bribery recommended).  The regent controlling the structure can permit other regents to use the Academy to attempt to recruit, while they control access however they have no influence over whom the foreign regent speaks…
Special   At the cost of a court action a season for .25 GB and 1 RP, the regent can offer a scholarship, in this case the above modifier, court/stability modifier, and half of any additional RP spent accumulate for up to 3 attempts to hire the help. (i.e. with +1 court/stability and 4 RP spend each time the modifier would go: +7, +12, +17, +17, +17, etc).  A failure by more than 10 wastes any accumulated bonus.
Modifiers   An academy may specialise in a particular field – warriors, priests, rogues, wizards or experts.  This specialisation costs a further 10 GB and 0.25 GB maintenance, but increases the benefit to +5 with respect to that class only.  Other classes are less likely to be available in a specialised academy.
Inspired by:   Small palace.

OoC:

Perhaps the following?

Engagement Bureau
DDC:  10.
Build Cost:  10 GB.
Upkeep:  0.25 GB/turn.
Benefits:  An engagement bureau provides a +2 asset bonus on hire help actions.  As many as two hire help actions may be conducted in a given turn, without an increase in the DDC.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 09:47:30 PM by Points East/EL (Brandon) »

Offline X-Points East

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Re: New structures
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 04:19:32 AM »

Shrine of the Patron
DDC   18
Build Cost   50 GB
Upkeep   0.5 GB
Benefits   +4 to all agitate actions in the province. Once per year cast Celestial Boon as a free action for 5 RP.  The DDC of any contest action of the temple is increased by +2.
Description   Every faith has one key individual who first laid down the foundations of its existence, Fitzalen, Torgoed, their words and deeds echo in the hearts of all those who hold to their creed.
Note   Only one per faith barring the creation / existence of a schism in the faith (not recommended).
Inspired by:   Chapel

OoC:

What is the annual upkeep of a Chapel of the Saint?
How does that compare to the cost of Bless the Holy Land?

What is the annual upkeep of the proposed Shrine of the Patron?
How does that compare to the cost of Celestial Boon?


Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 09:54:55 PM »
Chapel of the saint is 10/.25.  Since celestial boon is four times the cost of bless the holy land, I multiplied the CapEx by 4 to get 40.  A structure with cost 40 has upkeep .5.  So Patron became 40 / .5.

To cast the chapel blessing costs 1 RP, so I charged the Patron 4 RP for the same.  The maintenance doesn't quite cross, but that balances out on the internal rate of return scale depending on the discount factor you apply to the build - it takes quite a while to build a big structure delaying the initial payoff.
Robhan Khaiarén
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Work hard, walk with honour, be justly rewarded

Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 09:56:47 PM »
There's potential in a lot of this, though some of them seem quite strong.
How about Officer's Academy (Westpoint)? Or, if you wish to use the proving ground kinda theme, make it focused on a particular unit (dragoons, pikemen, etc.) or unit subtype (cavalry school, infantry, archers, etc.).

That way you could get bonus xp for having the structure, but not boost your entire army (there's only so much you can gain from training I guess, if you don't specialize in certain fields, and training infantry,cavarly and archers in various aspects at the same time would be very taxing).

I was figuring 1 unit at a time - not as many as you wanted - should have specified.  In terms of topping out that should probably dealt with in the main rules - no training after level 'x', only xp won in the field...
Robhan Khaiarén
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Work hard, walk with honour, be justly rewarded

Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 10:09:22 PM »
Engagement Academy
DDC:  12.
Build Cost:  30 GB.
Upkeep:  0.5 GB/turn.
Benefits:  An engagement academy provides a +4 asset bonus on hire help actions.  As many as three hire help actions may be conducted in a given turn, without an increase in the DDC.
Academy-Specific Benefits:  When hiring an individual of an academy-specific class, the asset bonus is +6.  Furthermore, an engagement academy provides a +2 asset bonus on grant (promotion) and create lieutenant actions, involving members of the academy-specific class.

I wondered about grant and create lieutenant, but worried the structure was getting bloated.

I went for tall (RP spend efficiency) compared to wide (avoid repeat hire DC escalation) as the DC of hires gets extremely high - a L1 true wizard clocks in at 31 minimum (elite +5, true magic +10, bloodline +5)...  A L1 priest at a barely more attainable 26 (unless you are hoping for realm spells out of them someday).  At that sort of point the level is almost irrelevant - if you are spending  20+ RP to get the DC down to a take 20 point, then spending another 10 RP to get 5 more levels is nothing.  If you can only afford to spend 1 action and are paying 50-60+ RP to get a very low DC then hiring L as-high-as-you-can-get is not much more.  By halving the RP cost, the need to burn DC down reduces as the waste is less on a bad roll, so the hope was that level would be a spend factor, although to really get that you'd need a non-linear level cost function.
Robhan Khaiarén
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Work hard, walk with honour, be justly rewarded

Offline X-Points East

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Re: New structures
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 02:32:12 AM »

Chapel of the saint is 10/.25.  Since celestial boon is four times the cost of bless the holy land, I multiplied the CapEx by 4 to get 40.  A structure with cost 40 has upkeep .5.  So Patron became 40 / .5.

To cast the chapel blessing costs 1 RP, so I charged the Patron 4 RP for the same.  The maintenance doesn't quite cross, but that balances out on the internal rate of return scale depending on the discount factor you apply to the build - it takes quite a while to build a big structure delaying the initial payoff.

OoC:

Upkeep of an Imperial Palace is 1 GB/turn.


Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 10:29:40 PM »
Both of the larger palaces are out of sync, perhaps unsurprisingly given the fluff context - I attach the list.
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Offline X-Tornilen/SM (Alexander)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 03:32:20 AM »
This was an idea I had. The cost of maintaining a big network of ley lines can quickly get steep (as it should be), but the drain is on regency points... which are needed for spells. Since the Alchemy spell offers us a way to turn regency into gold, I think there is room for a way to change the regency cost of a ley line network into a gold cost.

Alchemy allows a mage to turn Regency Points into Gold Bars at an exchange rate of 4 to 1. This goes the other way, but at a 2 to 1 rate... so 100% poorer conversion rate. I do not think this will be game breaking, it will allow mages with a steady income to maintain a larger ley line network without reducing the RP they have available for spells. Only those with a income base will want this building, so it is not for every mage (that way we won't have to wonder why everyone hasn't build one of these things).

The last part about mixing maintenance and start-up cost might be too much of hassle. The simple solution is to have it be all or nothing - either it has to support the entire ley line, or it has to be turned of.

Ley Line Nexus
Description:
The Ley Line Nexus maintains the Mage's ley line network for him. It become slightly more stable and difficult to disrupt, but the advantage is mostly that the Mage can support the network with magical components instead of his own power.
The Nexus can take many shapes, but some kind of conversion device is needed - this usually takes the form of a forge into which magical components from across the land are thrown. They are burned in the magical fire and thus sustains the Ley Lines.
DDC 12
Build Cost 10
Upkeep 0.25 GB + 0.25 GB per 1 RP cost of the Ley Line.
Benefits
The Nexus must be built in a province in which the Ley Line to be affected originates, terminates or has a hook-up there. The Nexus allows the Mage to turn the Maintenance cost of the Ley Line, including all extensions and hook-ups, into gold bars instead. For each 4 RP that would be needed to maintan the line, 1 GB is used up.
This gold represents magical materials gathered and bought throughout the land. Plants gathered at sources, magical charms, spell components, etc, are gathered and sacrificed at the nexus.
This also makes the Ley Line the nexus maintains slightly more stable, granting it a +2 modifier to it's SR versus attempts to tamper with it.
The downside of the Nexus is that it tampers with the flow of Mebhaighl in the province. This can weaken the barrier between the worlds, making shadow world incursions more likely or make it easier for magical beings to gain entrance. What this means exactly is up to the GM, but there should be a 10% increased risk of magical events in the province.
The Nexus must either be turned completely off or on, there is no halfway. Either it supports the entire ley line, or it does nothing - in which case the +2 bonus to SR disappears.
Inspired by: Alchemy spell

EDIT: Boosted the conversion rate, made it more expensive and made it all or nothing. I like this version... Perhaps time to ask the dms if I can actually build this thing, once I get the cash :P Conversion rate might still need to be 1-3 instead of 1-4 though...

Hope this is not considered thread-jacking... if so I apologize.
Not a lot of comments on the other buildings suggested, they look good to me, though the academy description needs to be clearer. I have trouble understanding exactly how it works.
Also, note that the Mebhaighl nexus grants the equivalent effect of a 6th level spell - enhance source. 25 GB is a lot though, seems fair.
Perhaps it would be an idea to require Research action in order to build structures that are magical in nature? Perhaps including religious buildings (finding the right prayers, consecrations, and such).

« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 08:51:01 AM by Tornilen/SM (Alexander) »
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 10:06:05 AM »
Hmm, don't you need gold for spells too?  I'd have thought it would be in even shorter supply for most than RP?  Plus in RoE RP are only worth half the usual amount spells aside...

I'll have another think about the academy, but as it would only be used at the start of a game to fill out slots maybe its not a structure that anyone would ever actually bother building
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 01:48:05 AM »
Some of the structures are simply too complicated from the prespective of DM management, IMO.  I am thinking about the Academy (I like Brandon's version more).
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Offline X-Haelyn's Aegis/RK (Andy)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2009, 10:49:55 PM »
I agree that a rolling track for the academy is harder for the DM - although the player should do the actual tracking.  A 1:1 RP cost instead of the usual 2:1 as the structure power would avoid the need to track things turn on turn and still have a significant impact.  My concern with a +2 bonus is that it would make the building useful only for hiring administrators which is not currently a huge issue from what I see.

The problem I'm seeing with hire help at present is in trying to build 'replacement PC' or 'Useful classed lieutenant' type characters - the DC smashes 40 easily for any hires that are spellcasters.  My worry is that the loss of the regent will be utterly unfixable, Robhan clocks in at a DC around 59 if I read the rules correctly (which I hope I'm not), as a new regent would be a driving 'DC must be 1' sort of issue that would be a cost of 1 GB, 1 action, and 116 RP to get an equivalent - Haelyn knows how they afforded him even with a take 20 action to drop the cost to 78 RP - or why the Aegis didn't chuck in a few extra RP/GB to get someone much higher level (his level is a trivial part of the cost).

In practice I don't see how they - or any other temple/source domain could afford that sort of price - which means that if any temple/source domain loses its regent then it is basically eliminated as a domain.  Given that job #1 of any regent is to arrange for an orderly succession (the throne must have an heir) I'm looking at a 'take 20' action and more than a season's income as being necessary to get someone who might, if they survive several adventures, be ready to succeed when Robhan fails a shuffle check.

Of course I may be missing the point - Jon's mentioned that you should be building up adventurer-quality looey's by, well, adventuring - but the level cost is fairly minimal cost-wise and if you've spent 60-70 RP buying someone then the last thing you would do is send them out to get killed/crippled adventuring...


Aside from academy I'd hope the structures are relatively simple - a single 'pip' on the spreadsheet sort of thing just like a bless province spell for any which increase the potential level - most of them were simple translations of existing structures.
Robhan Khaiarén
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Offline X-Osoerde (Alan)

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Re: New structures
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2009, 03:24:52 AM »
The DC represents if you just were to do some 'cold calling', if you will, for a hireling/henchmen.  In most cases though, these characters are acquired primarily through diplomacy, adventure, espionage, etc actions.

This is to say...

Robhan is look for an heir.

First, he does a research/advisor action to look for canidates. 
Secondly, he arranges a diplomacy/adventure action to see if he like the person, and get them to agree to be his successor.
Thirdly, he uses the Hired Help action

This particular plan is probably more common for the purposes of finding an heir, then simply going out and looking for some out of the blue.


Additionally, there is nothing that says that an heir is a part of your able-assistance.
Yes, wyrmling, the meat is made all the more tender by armor...